Republicans: NHS is "Owellian and Evil"

[Keltik THC]

You're aware that people who drink and smoke pay a lot of extra taxes. right?

you do know that taxes dont fund our country right? and that taxes are used to pay back the money the money we are initially loaned from the international bankers?

but aside from that, who said i was talking about just ciggaretes and alcahol? im talking about crack, heroin, coca cola and sunny delight.

 

[Keltik THC]

The NHS is not perfect but it’s common sense to have one where everyone no matter your earnings can get treatment for their medical problems, self-inflicted or not.

im not disagreeing with the whole system, im just not 100% sold on the idea... for instance, your treatment is wholly decided by other people... as a non-profit entity that decision is not supposed to be a financial decision, but it always will be.. thats why you have big pharma lobbying everyone they can to force the government to supply expensive treatments.

i have no clear opinion as to what system is best, i just know they are all flawed... and the NHS has some of the biggest flaws in my opinion.

 

[V4NT0M]

Example: http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=333933006516877

Errrr..... What...... Is this true:

The U.K.'s National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) basically figures out who deserves treatment by using a cost-utility analysis based on the "quality adjusted life year."

One year in perfect health gets you one point. Deductions are taken for blindness, for being in a wheelchair and so on.

The more points you have, the more your life is considered worth saving, and the likelier you are to get care.

I've never heard of anyone being refused treatment.

 

[drunkenmaster]

The NHS is far from perfect.
But it is miles better than what a lot of Americans have, even when they've got health insurance (some of the companies have policies such as voiding insurance for cancer if you don't declare a mistaken diagnosis by a previous doctor, and many seem to have an attitude that makes our car insurance industry seem paragons of customer service when it comes to paying out for procedures*).

Just on that point, Insurance anywhere in the world is big on knowing what they are insuring and all insurance companies are the same, HMO's are the worst in the USA, but when you go to buy an over and some guy says, yeah this is the same as that oven over there, identical but its 1/4 the price you think, "hang on a minute" . People go for a supposedly good deal and get screwed often, better insurance companies screw you less.

As for paying out, car insurance, in all honesty is normally minor amounts compared to costs of health care which can run into the 100k's easily for severe/long term conditions, how many of the most frequent car crashes result in anything more than a couple grands damages.

As with any insurance company, the bigger the pay out the bigger the investigation and the harder it is to get the money.

Theres up's and downs for both systems, private healthcare there is about as good as it gets, NHS here misses lots of things and makes lots of mistakes but serves more people.

Frankly you can not have private healthcare quality for everyone, no country in the world can afford it, its impossible, same way no country can afford to give everyone a ferrari. People get paid, the healthcare industry is no different, it costs to treat people. Why does everyone expect the best free healthcare but dont' also demand free cars and free bigger houses, all 3 idea's are completely as unfeasable as each other.

It would be great if healthcare was easier, cost less and was more reliable across the board, its not, its expensive and mistakes get made. You want less mistakes and less risk you pay more.

 

[V4NT0M]

^^ But we have private and public, best of both worlds no?

 

[drunkenmaster]

Errrr..... What...... Is this true:

I've never heard of anyone being refused treatment.

people are refused treatment in the NHS constantly, are you mad?

You can't get a hip replacement if your hip only hurts you a bit all the time for years, its only when it gets so bad you can't walk anymore. SO rather than fix you up early asap to get you back out and working/living. They wait till it would simply be too morally disgusting to ignore you anymore. WHich often leaves people in a FAR worse condition post surgery than if it had been taken care of earlier.

Most conditions you'll find there are very specific criteria you have to meet, before your condition becomes severe enough to require treatment. Not sure why people think that isn't the case.

 

[V4NT0M]

Most conditions you'll find there are very specific criteria you have to meet, before your condition becomes severe enough to require treatment. Not sure why people think that isn't the case.

I meant refused on the basis of being sick too much. Of course they have to ration what healthcare people get, you can't go giving everyone with a headache a full battery of MRI scans.

 

[drunkenmaster]

^^ But we have private and public, best of both worlds no?

Not really because here we pay for private and a massive chuck of our tax to the non private even if we don't use it. You pay twice for no reason rather than simply choose where to put your single chuck of cash in for health service.

Remember lots of american's can afford better healthcare but when an extra grand or two a year becomes optional and most years you end up not using it quite a large chunk of the population simply run the risk of hoping to not get sick and getting more money to spend/save as they wish.

If our payments to the nhs became optional you don't think quite a lot of people would run that same risk also? obviously not everyone can afford healthcare, but theres a group that can and don't.


Our private healthcare is also on a FAR smaller scale than the USA and if 50% of the population started using it tomorrow, it would crumble literally in a day by massive demand and little supply.

There is no "best" way to do it, obviously everyone gets treated for whatever they have almost instantly, woohoo, its just not affordable. No matter the style of healthcare there will always be limits, be it money, or criteria for getting the surgery. If you have no money, you have to wait in the UK or the USA till your condition is bad enough that you qualify for treatment. If you have the money you can get treated for anything almost instantly, again not a huge amount of difference between the USA/UK there either.

here more people are on the NHS, more people are get treated on it and there are more doctors resources in the public sector. In the USA its reversed, theres more doctors and resources privately, and a far larger portion of the population is treated privately than here.

Either way those that can't afford it, wait and always will, as with any other industry in the world to date.

 

[Energize]

Two countries with a lower healthcare rating than the UK, and significantly lower than the insurance driven countries such as france...

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

Didn't you say those WHO ratings were meaningless?

One of the biggest problems with the NHS is GP's. They waste so much time, doing everything in their power to avoid referring you to a consultant who has a clue what they are talking about.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Two countries with a lower healthcare rating than the UK, and significantly lower than the insurance driven countries such as france...

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

Those stats are 9 years old and the page itself admits that they are tremendously difficult to compile.

I'm not saying there's no truth in them, but the above should be borne in mind.

 

[Dolph]

^^ But we have private and public, best of both worlds no?

I have to pay extra tax on my private healthcare... Work that one out.

 

[THMRK]

I do like the NHS, and it's always been fine for me. It has also come on leaps and bounds since its inception but is still held hostage by useless middle management by people who have no medicinal or health background.

I certainly think it needs reformed, no question, and it has been Britain's baby and I think we should be somewhat proud of it because of the nature of the system and how long it's been going for. It's certainly better than the US system, that's for sure.

I don't know how many, if any, of you seen channel 4 news earlier on but there was an anti-NHS women on there, an American who ended up basically being destroyed. The media campaign they're running in the US about it really is shocking, and full of disinformation on a huge scale.

 

[Stev]

My mother just plainly wouldnt be alive without the NHS, with her numerous operations disabled nature and having a nurse visit her at least once a week, we would never be able to afford to keep her "healthy"

I have the upmost respect for the NHS.

 

[Sankari]

NHS is Owellian and Evil!

 

[footman]

for instance, your treatment is wholly decided by other people...

I'm not quite clear what you mean by this. Are you suggesting that we, as patients, should decide what drugs are used for our chemotherapy for instance?
Aside from emergency life saving treatments my experience, both as a clinician and as a patient is that treatment rationales are generally discussed with patients.

 

[Tefal]

your treatment is wholly decided by other people...

em no it's not :/

I've asked and received changes to my medication many times, if it's nto working tell them and they change it.


Or do you mean you should be able to just turn up and say i want these pills?

 

[Chimerical]

Daniel Hannan has had his 10mins of youtube fame, now he should **** off back to the rock from which he crawled under.

This. I'd be interested to know what Mr. Hannan wants instead unless he's just unhappy with it in its current state which is fair enough. I don't defend the NHS from whatever is wrong with it though.

 

[Russinating]

The NHS is a godsend. It saved my mum's life and I too have had an operation (although not at all major and they did screw half of it up ). Plus, if you don't like it for whatever reason, you can still go private - the best of both worlds.

The only trouble is the general public who need to be educated and realise the costs involved with a GP visit or the implications of an unhealthy lifestyle, which the NHS also promotes. I hate people who go to the doctors for every symptom under the sun because they're too stupid to realise it's just a cold or a headache. And for this reason I think it may fail in America.

 

[dirtydog]

There was an American being interviewed on the BBC just now, criticising the NHS. He said we have to wait six weeks for a dental appointment and "have you seen the state of British teeth?"

Bloody Yanks and their obsession with teeth!

 

[Helium_Junkie]

The NHS is flawed, but I'll take it as it is any day over the american system of paying $thousands for no better service!