Social Housing to be built opposite where I live

So you think everyone who doesn't wait until they can afford to have children sponge of the state? Because that's the way your post comes across.

Yes, I think people should wait until they can afford it before having children. Most people do this - its called being responsible. This country would be in a far better state if more people had a sense of financial and moral responsibility.

If you can't afford a house in a nice area AND kids then you simply hold off one until you can afford both.
 
Yes, I think people should wait until they can afford it before having children. Most people do this - its called being responsible. This country would be in a far better state if more people had a sense of financial and moral responsibility.

If you can't afford a house in a nice area AND kids then you simply hold off one until you can afford both.

So the people that cannot afford both and the woman falls pregnent she should be forced to have an abortion? And you think only people with nice houses in nice areas should have kids?

Simply wow.
 
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35 years ago? Could or can afford? Make your mind up are you taking about today or 35 years ago? Even with hard work most working class can not afford to buy a home. Thats why there is social housing in the first place.
I mean *can* afford obviously. And yes they can afford a home, maybe not the 3 bedroom semi they want but then neither *could* my parents 35 years ago. People want everything for nothing these days plain and simple and why not when it's so damn easy.
 
So the people that cannot afford both and the woman falls pregnent she should be forced to have an abortion? And you think only people with nice houses in nice areas should have kids?

Simply wow.

I think you are mistaking sensible family planning with 'being forced to have an abortion' but I can see how you made that leap. :rolleyes:
 
So the people that cannot afford both and the woman falls pregnent she should be forced to have an abortion? And you think only people with nice houses in nice areas should have kids?

Simply wow.

Good Lord - you really fail at reading comprehension don't you?

My point is that people shouldn't have children and expect the state to pay for them.

Who said anything about "only people with nice houses in nice areas should have kids"? Nice is purely subjective - for some people it will be in a "poorer" area, for others it will be in a "prestigious" area - that is subjective based on the couple in question.

If you don't have enough money for a HOUSE (in whatever area) and KIDS, then in my opinion you shouldn't expect the government to pay for both. You should save up until you can afford them. Its quite a simple concept, one that you seem to be struggling with though.

You can see why people get annoyed

Couple A goes to University, works hard, gets a job on the lower rungs of the corporate ladder and works for 10 years until they have enough for a house and Kid #1

Couple B leave school at 16, work in a factory, are subsidised to the hilt when they need a house, have kids 1,2,3 and in 3 years and end up bringing in as much as Couple A via Tax Credits and whatnot.

Doesn't really encourage you to work hard and be financially responsible does it?
 
Who said anything about "only people with nice houses in nice areas should have kids"? Nice is purely subjective - for some people it will be in a "poorer" area, for others it will be in a "prestigious" area - that is subjective based on the couple in question.

Erm, you did a couple of posts up. I even quoted you.

Granted, people should not expect the government to pay for their children, however do you not think that the government have created this problem and then people have cottoned onto this and abused a flawed system?

Also.

Every single working family with one worker in the workplace provides enough value to society to warrant raising a family. Why is it they could do this in 1492 but not now!

The reason is that we thought we would be smart and send women into the marketplace. This saturated the marketplace with labor. This and many other things meant employers could pay below subsistence wages.

The real question is: Why in the 21st century do we expect people to contribute to society--usually both spouses--without making enough money to raise two kids.

Employers and taxpayers should not expect to reap from someone's labor "if they cannot afford to" pay them a subsistence wage.

And NO, it is not about McMansions. It is about basic homes that our parents used to live in, that now a single college grad cannot afford.

Our parents could afford a 1500 square foot home with one income generator and 2.5 kids and two used, if not one new, cars.

Why is it now hard to have the same with TWO income-earners? Only the highest-paid single professionals I know can buy a house these days, without getting a partner or roommates.

Because we have chosen for it to be that way. Because we are working harder and harder but pure free-market economics means we will continue to get paid as little as possible.

They are blaming the victims.

Where are the rewards of a lifetime of skyrocketing technology? They are not shared with the machines of productivity, the workers, nor do pure free-market capitalists believe they should be.

I am in no way a socialist, as conservatives everywhere love to label people. I simply think if we could make a living by one person working in 1492 or 1970 we should be able to do so now with the skyrocketing advances ALL WORKERS have contributed to.

Working harder, advancing productivity, building technology to enhance production....the average worker's lifestyle in terms of ability to live month to month is going DOWN.

WHY?

Because in terms of pay we are simply owing our souls to the company store because the average worker makes less than enough to buy a reasonable house and car and future. Then, optimistic creatures we are, we try to make up for it on credit.

Solutions include many things, including:
*Entrepreneurship, but many fall victim to pyramid schemes and such
*Adjusting taxes to allow someone subsistence income
*Balancing pay for the common man who, like AIG execs, may just have a motivational problem showing up for less than a million dollars a year.....OK, it doesn't have to be a million for most....
*Reinstating the "Death Tax" which to this day no dead person ever complained about, only rich "entitled" heirs.
*Encouraging entrepreneurship
*Requiring any govt. contractor to pay a living wage.

When we have 1% of the population with 90 or 99% of the wealth, yet workers unable to afford families, we DO have a problem with wealth distribution.

Fact is that we could afford more, even equal for equal, in 1970 by far than now. ONE person supported a family instead of TWO struggling.
 
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Erm, you did a couple of posts up. I even quoted you.

I said "If you can't afford a house in a nice area AND kids then you simply hold off one until you can afford both. "

I then said "Nice is purely subjective - for some people it will be in a "poorer" area, for others it will be in a "prestigious" area"

EDIT: Yes, I do think the Government have created the problem, but people have this wonderful thing called Free Will. If they choose to abuse the system, THEY are responsible.
 
Whereas the sensible couple who save up to buy a house, then save up to have kids look on in utter disgust.

They then waste NHS time crying about IVF as they left it to late......


Yes, I think people should wait until they can afford it before having children. Most people do this - its called being responsible. This country would be in a far better state if more people had a sense of financial and moral responsibility.

If you can't afford a house in a nice area AND kids then you simply hold off one until you can afford both.


They then waste NHS time crying about how little billy has downs or some other needs......

I mean *can* afford obviously. And yes they can afford a home, maybe not the 3 bedroom semi they want but then neither *could* my parents 35 years ago. People want everything for nothing these days plain and simple and why not when it's so damn easy.

Thats not the case, have you bought a home yet?
 
Thats not the case, have you bought a home yet?

Why yes I have actually, in 2007. I rented for 12 years and saved because I couldn't afford to buy the type of house I wanted to. Now I have it, after years of work and patience. I could have bought something pretty much as soon as I was working though and made my way up but I preferred to rent as I was contracting for most of the time so I did it this way and waited until I could get the type of house I wanted.
 
They then waste NHS time crying about IVF as they left it to late......
....
They then waste NHS time crying about how little billy has downs or some other needs......

What a bizarre comeback.

Imagine waiting till your late twenties to have kids? Shocking eh?

Because accidental pregnancies NEVER happen do they?

Of course they happen. We aren't talking about accidents - we are talking about people who simply get up one morning, decide to have kids and assume someone else will pay for them.
 
Here, here

rabble! rabble!

End of the day what honest hard working tax payers are trying to say is....


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No, thanks! Nimby!
 
Of course they happen. We aren't talking about accidents - we are talking about people who simply get up one morning, decide to have kids and assume someone else will pay for them.

Just out of curiosity.

Couple A go through uni etc, get a really nice house lovely mortgage, woman then becomes pregnant due to a split condom/pill not working and decides to keep the baby and leaves her well paid job. Man cannot pay for the mortgage and they lose their home.

What would you do with this family?
 
Good Lord - you really fail at reading comprehension don't you?

My point is that people shouldn't have children and expect the state to pay for them.

So when you have kids you WILL give back your working tax credits, your childs money, your Mrs will give back her maternity allowance
or not have any which means she will have to work till the day the baby is born
Oh and the money she will get after the baby is born from the gov?
 
Why yes I have actually, in 2007. I rented for 12 years and saved because I couldn't afford to buy the type of house I wanted to. Now I have it, after years of work and patience. I could have bought something pretty much as soon as I was working though and made my way up but I preferred to rent as I was contracting for most of the time so I did it this way and waited until I could get the type of house I wanted.

So you rented for 12 years just like anyone else in social housing due to affordability. Was it private of social let?
 
Just out of curiosity.

Couple A go through uni etc, get a really nice house lovely mortgage, woman then becomes pregnant due to a split condom/pill not working and decides to keep the baby and leaves her well paid job. Man cannot pay for the mortgage and they lose their home.

What would you do with this family?

Well I would suggest that the couple could seek help from family members, they could've taken out income protection insurance, they could downsize. This happens quite regularly - you know when you get a mortgage one of the points in the Key Facts illustration is something along the lines of "how would you pay your mortgage if you or your partner lost their job". In an ideal world, the mortgage lender would freeze the mortgage for 6 months and the couple might be eligible for some kind of financial aid.

So when you have kids you WILL give back your working tax credits, your childs money, your Mrs will give back her maternity allowance
or not have any which means she will have to work till the day the baby is born
Oh and the money she will get after the baby is born from the gov?

Of course I won't. My wife and I are waiting until we can afford it before having children - we have been saving for a new house in a nice area, and we both pay a considerable amount in tax, so I think we are perfectly entitled to Tax Credits. Not that I think we'll get much. People who work hard shouldn't feel guilty for getting a very small proportion of the tax they pay back. The people that should feel guilty are the scum who never contribute a penny yet receive vast sums courtesy of the Government.
 
How simplitic, do you realy think a big TV and Sky HD means one is doing well in life or even comes into comparison with being able to afford a morgage for your average home? A lot of working class people can't afford the things you listed, due to low wages.

Yet most of them have them anyway - drive through any 'social housing' estate and you'll find a disproportionately higher number of sky dishes on the wall than if you drive through an affluent area. Don't flame me - try it. Go on.

Who cares, credit card debt doesn't matter anyway?
 
Some wait till they are in their late 30s or 40s which I do find bizarre.

Why?

Colleague of mine is 43 and his youngest child is 18 months. They have a stunning house in a lovely neighbourhood and enough money to send their kids to a very good school. Why is that bizarre? They waited until they had enough saved to give their kids the lifestyle they wanted to.
 
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