Self employed - Vat back?

Soldato
Joined
3 Jul 2005
Posts
3,027
Hi, well im self employed for a marketing company which sells sky tv door to door. Im self employed and apparently I can get vat back. Is that for everything I buy and how do i get it back? Also what do i do about tax? Cheers
 
to claim back VAT you need to be VAT registered.

im not sure how you would go about claiming it back if you are not, i dont think you can.

as for your tax, for now keep a record of everything you buy and spend and everything you invoice and bank

then it would be sensilbe to seek the advice from an accountant, depening on what you are doing, how much you are turning over and other personal circumstances that might need to be taken in to account
 
Last edited:
There's a few considerations when thinking about becoming VAT registered but perhaps the most important is to know whether your customers are (generally at least). If they are then that's great, if not then it may well be more hassle than it is worth.

vonhelmet might be able to offer a bit more detailed advice since this is very much in his line of work.
 
Bear in mind that if you register for VAT (either voluntarily or when you cross the turnover threshhold) then you have to charge VAT on everything that you sell. Then you can reclaim as input VAT the VAT on things that you buy or services that you buy that are used in furthering that business. So you can't claim back the VAT on anything that isn't used for business purposes.
 
Hire an accountant and he/she will look after all of that stuff for you. Just remember to keep records and reciepts.
 
I'll post in half an hour or so - baby to feed now - but this sounds messy already. Are you sure you're self employed? Even though you work for this company? Tell me more about that and I'll work from there.
 
Right, baby fed and in bed...

Are you really self employed?

What sort of contract do you have with this company? Are you really self employed, or have they just said that you need to be self employed? Some companies will try to pull a fast one by claiming their workers are self employed so that they don't have to deal with PAYE compliance, and to cut their employers NIC bill which is a big cost. If there's any doubt then HMRC will come down on them like a ton of bricks.

Self employment vs employment is basically a question of who bears certain costs and who deals with compliance. If you're self employed, there's less NIC costs (both in terms of your NIC costs and in terms of the total NIC paid) but you have to do your accounts and tax returns. If you're employed, then your NIC costs are higher, the company has employers' NIC to pay, and they have to do all the PAYE stuff in relation to you.

Rough and ready tests for self employment/employment...

1) Mutuality of obligations - Does the company have to provide you with work? If they offer you work, do you have to do it? Can you just rock up and accept work when you feel like it or must you take it?
2) Integration - Do you become part of their organisation? Do you have a uniform? Do you have access to their facilities?
3) Control - Can the company tell you what to do? When to work? Where? How?
4) Equipment - Do they provide you with equipment or do you provide your own?
5) Risk - How much risk are you bearing in all this?
6) Can you send a substitute in your place?

Do you see yourself as self employed? Are you a Sky salesman who just happens to be working a contract for these guys at the moment? Or are you working for them and they've told you to be self employed? Who pays you? The company, or the clients you're selling Sky to?

I'd hazard that they're pulling a fast one and just want you to be self employed to make their lives easier. That's illegal and dishonest and could have repercussions for the company in terms of penalties. It also means you have to faff about doing your own returns and stuff, which sucks.

Self employed - what you have to do

Assuming that you are self employed, you'll have to register for self assessment. You'll also have to register as self employed. I think the form you have to fill in is called a CWF1, but I could be wrong. Have a look on the HMRC website.

You'll need to figure out the date to which you're going to draw up accounts. I'd suggest 31 March purely from an administrative point of view. The rules for basis periods are complex, so you may as well pick a date that entails the minimum hassle. You'll then need to start logging all income and expenses that relate to the job. There's rules on what you can and can't deduct for tax purposes, and it's quite complicated. You can't deduct depreciation on capital assets, but you can deduct capital allowances on qualifying equipment. If you use your own car or house or other equipment, you may be able to deduct a portion of the running costs. There's a hell of a lot of rules for calculating taxable profits, and if this is going to be a serious and ongoing thing, then I would advise that you get an accountant and get them to do it, as it will save a lot of time and effort.

VAT

For some reason people think that once you're self employed you can claim VAT back on anything you please. You can't. If you are registered for VAT, be that because you exceed the turnover limit of £67k per year (I think that's the current threshold) or because you've volunteered to do so, then you must charge VAT on the services provided (if they're VATable) and then you can deduct any VAT on your costs. The balance you pay over to or claim back from HMRC. So while you can claim back VAT on costs, you're only in fact deducting it from a larger amount of cash that you've charged your customers and are about to pay over to HMRC. You can also only claim VAT back on business costs. There's restrictions on the VAT you can claim back in relation to cars.

I doubt your turnover is anything approaching the threshold, and I doubt there's any reason why voluntary registration will help you. Don't register, and as someone said above - just forget about VAT. Yes, you're paying it on your purchases, no you're not charging it, no you can't claim it back.

In conclusion...

This all sounds like a massive pain in the arse, and it sounds to me like the company is only insisting you be self employed to cut their costs. It might be worth looking for a new "employer". Alternatively, if it is genuine, get an accountant and get them to handle all this stuff.
 
Just to add to vonhelmet's post. Because of your low turnover (I'm guessing you earn less than ~£250,000 a year) you'll probably get put on the fixed scheme where you pay the VAT man a certain % of your sales based on what kind of job you do. I left my lovely thick tax books on my desk in work so I can't tell you the exact amount. I think it's about 7%. You then charge your clients an extra 15% (at the moment) as you sell a standard rated product.

The question you have to ask is; do you turnover more than £67,000 a year? If so, ring HMRC for assistance setting things up. If not, is it worth the hassle and the risk of losing customers because of an extra 15%, just to get an extra 8% income? You could lower your prices but it's still all the messing around with compliance.

/CTA trainee.
 
Hi, well im self employed for a marketing company which sells sky tv door to door. Im self employed and apparently I can get vat back. Is that for everything I buy and how do i get it back? Also what do i do about tax? Cheers

Some great advice already, but it sounds like you really need to get some personal advice either by calling the HMRC or sorting an accountant out as you shouldnt be trading until you inform the revenue that you are Self Employed for a kick off. If its door to door Sky tv selling i doubt its going to pay huge ammounts so just log what you get paid by the company initially.
 
Some great advice already, but it sounds like you really need to get some personal advice either by calling the HMRC or sorting an accountant out as you shouldnt be trading until you inform the revenue that you are Self Employed for a kick off. If its door to door Sky tv selling i doubt its going to pay huge ammounts so just log what you get paid by the company initially.

You have 3 months from commencing trading in which to register as self-employed.
 
Heh. I'm a cta trainee too, but I did vat in my awareness paper, so I only need to remember the absolute basics now!

Sitting my Awareness exam in just over two weeks. Joy :( Business Law is the worst for CA exams. I hate law with a passion.
 
Just to add to vonhelmet's post. Because of your low turnover (I'm guessing you earn less than ~£250,000 a year) you'll probably get put on the fixed scheme where you pay the VAT man a certain % of your sales based on what kind of job you do. I left my lovely thick tax books on my desk in work so I can't tell you the exact amount. I think it's about 7%. You then charge your clients an extra 15% (at the moment) as you sell a standard rated product.

The question you have to ask is; do you turnover more than £67,000 a year? If so, ring HMRC for assistance setting things up. If not, is it worth the hassle and the risk of losing customers because of an extra 15%, just to get an extra 8% income? You could lower your prices but it's still all the messing around with compliance.

/CTA trainee.

Without taking a great deal of effort as i cant be bothered.

Flat rate vat is for turnover up to £150,000 (ex vat) and is basically a fixed percentage of all turnover (including Interest recevied). The % is varied depending on trade but generally you are better off.

As what was previously said you will still charge output on your sales.

Your best bet would be to sit down with an accountant will all your figures in front of you and they will be able to give the best advise.

/ACA Trainee

P.s Tax is easy as pie!
 
ooo CTA club woot

I am doing my last two exams in 3 weeks. Owner managed business advisory and application.

I was impressed with a solid answer vonhelmet.
 
kemik are you a masochist?

that sounds like pure pain.

It's not too bad seen as they cut out one or two exams due to the content clashing. We're at college for 9 weeks straight (9-4.30), sit CA Law, CA Financial Accounting and CTA Awareness then back again next May for 8 weeks for more exam fun. It carries on like that for three years until I'm qualified!
 
Back
Top Bottom