Fast(ish) Diesels

iaind

iaind

iaind

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Not so much of a spec me thread, more an initial investigation to see if there's something out there worthwhile changing to.

I don't want this to turn into yet another petrol vs diesel thread, so I'll try and explain my reasoning behind this. Fuel economy is important to me for several reasons - I put money aside for maintenance every month and the purchase will come from savings/finance. I'm not buying fuel from my savings, so the argument that diesels are more expensive doesn't really apply here.

Fuel comes out my disposable income and I like to be able to decide to drive to London or Edinburgh or elsewhere on a whim without emptying my wallet and having nothing left to enjoy myself when I get there.

I've never really liked small cars from a style and comfort point of view, and I do find a big car useful - Its often loaded with stuff from ikea, or a german shepard and a weeks luggage etc. So thats small cars out, even if something fast like a Clio 182 will give me the economy.

So I'm left with big cars and most logically diesels. My current car fits my needs perfectly (my only criticism is I dont like the seats) and performs adequately, but what if I wanted something with a bit more grunt? AFAIK this narrows it down to one of the bigger diesels. Budget I'm yet to decide but could include any of these:

- BMW 330d - I like these (e46) and could afford to run one, but don't know if I'd want to pay that much more to keep a car running well
- BMW 530d - less keen on the 5 series (cant remember the E number, the Fox shape), and might be a bit too big - the Mondy only just fits in my parking space :)
- Audi A4 2.5 TDI - know very little about these but I do like the A4
- Passat V6 TDI (old shape) - again don't know much, but I've driven a few 1.9 130s and they have been nice inside and comfortable
- Vectra V6 TDI - I know nothing at all about these, although one passed my the other day and made a rather interesting nosie.
- Mondeo ST TDCI - The most logical step possibly, but is it really enough of a step up in performance to warrant the change?

So, thoughts on the above? Obviously some a better than others, but would be interested to hear all point of views

Anything I'm missing? Or any petrols that would give me good enough economy (lets say 40mpg on motorways/30mpg average)?

My priorities would be reliability, quality, ride quality and specification.

Thanks for the pending wisdom :D
 
Did you know a Mk3 Mondeo is wider than an E39 5 Series?

The A4 is dulltastic, the Vectra is a Vectra which means if you consider it again you are daft, the Passat is even more dulltastic than the A4 but is a VW.

This leaves the 330d or the Mondeo. Which you should chose depends on your preference - the 330d will be faster, better to drive but older and less reliable. The Mondeo will be newer, more reliable but not as quick or as good looking.
 
Its not so much gerth I'm struggling with, its length - they're longer arent they?

To be honest, excitement isn't high on the list of priorities although I take your point. The vectra wasnt a real consideration, just there arent many oil burners above 2.0 that arent 4x4s out there!

Heart says 330d (would probably be a touring) but the head says Mondeo. I'm just not sure if going through the hassle of changing is worth it for another 200cc and 25bhp
 
iaind said:
Heart says 330d (would probably be a touring) but the head says Mondeo. I'm just not sure if going through the hassle of changing is worth it for another 200cc and 25bhp
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200cc extra? You have a 2.8l mondeo?

It isn't so much the extra power of the 330d over the mondeo, but more how the power is delivered. The 6-pot is smoother, and has a flatter torque curve.
 
I don't think the 5er is longer, I had a top trumps with PeterNem last week and I think the Mondeo came out on top in most situations size wise. from that list with your criteria I think the E39 5 series would suit you best, remember the ST TDCI isnt "that" fast in standard form compared to some of the diesels about now. Have you considered a new mk4 mondeo? Although that is huge so will no doubt have no chance in your parking space.
 
Drive the BM and the Mondy and that should make your mind up as to whether the BM is worth the extra costs.

For me, it would BM everytime, but then I've had a couple already.

n
 
SoliD said:
I don't think the 5er is longer, I had a top trumps with PeterNem last week and I think the Mondeo came out on top in most situations size wise. from that list with your criteria I think the E39 5 series would suit you best, remember the ST TDCI isnt "that" fast in standard form compared to some of the diesels about now. Have you considered a new mk4 mondeo? Although that is huge so will no doubt have no chance in your parking space.
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Interesting - how is the 530d compared to 330d performance wise? I know I could look at the stats, but more interested in the subjective experience rather than 0-60 times and things.

New Mondy is nice but as you say, massive.

paradigm said:
Ah. Either way, get the 330d. ;)
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That really is what the heart says, its a significant performance upgrade but a bigger hit to the wallet.

So can we play spec me a buget? What would I need to get a desirable 330d touring? Something in the right spec (M-Sport?), the right age/mileage that's been looked after properly?
 
iaind said:
Interesting - how is the 530d compared to 330d performance wise? I know I could look at the stats, but more interested in the subjective experience rather than 0-60 times and things.
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It depends on the sort of age of car you want. For pre 2003 cars, the weight advantage of a 330d is cancelled out by the fact that the facelift 530d had a revised and more powerful version of the M57B30 - 193bhp versus 184bhp. In 2003 the E39 was replaced and the E46 gained a power upgrade to 204bhp. The 204bhp models are, obviously, slightly quicker than the E39's. It also depends on your driving style. Assuming we are ignoring SE's, the 330d handles slightly better and feels slightly more nimble and in return looses some of the refinement of the E39. However, this loss of refinement does add slightly to the sense of speed.

So can we play spec me a buget? What would I need to get a desirable 330d touring? Something in the right spec (M-Sport?), the right age/mileage that's been looked after properly?
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£8-10k for a properly nice one? You'll want a 330d Sport - M Sport was a name change introduced on a 54 plate but there are very few of them around as thats around the time the E46 was binned and the E90 came out and its pointless paying big money for a 54 plate as they are little different to, say, a 6 speed 03 plate.

I nearly bought an ST220 and there have been a few times where I wondered if I progressed 'too quickly' - once you've had a decent BMW you'll never go back to Ford etc so it means you'll miss out on the ST variants.
 
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What are they like noise wise on motorways - I'm guessing the 5 is quieter?

8-10k isnt too bad at all really for the amount of car it gets me. Seeing as i'd be looking at 7ish for a decent Mondeo ST...

Ever since my dad had an E30 touring in Red (me being 5 at the time), I've always had a bit of a soft spot for them - I think a Red E46 touring would look really good :)

Janesy B said:
Mondeo > BMW. It's the natural OcUK path of progression.
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Is there any kind of initiation ceremony?
 
iaind said:
What are they like noise wise on motorways - I'm guessing the 5 is quieter?
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The 5 is quieter, neither ride absolutely brilliantly in Sport form (The E39 is better on the standard 17 inch wheels, but the E46 comes with 18's) and you do get a bit of jarring etc over expansion joints and anything more than billiardtable surfaces but it's not 'omg awful'. It's the sort of thing the driver doesn't notice, though your passengers might complain.

Ever since my dad had an E30 touring in Red (me being 5 at the time), I've always had a bit of a soft spot for them - I think a Red E46 touring would look really good :)
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Whilst they exist an Imole Red E46 330d Sport is going to take some finding! Do you want a touring for space or looks?
 
Noise is sujective and also plays largely into the model you go for (SE Vs Sport). SE's will pretty much always be quieter due to the balloon tyres and smaller rims. I think you'd find very little in the way of noise between the 3 and 5 with the 5 being marginally quieter.
 
The SE's ride better, are quieter and are more relaxing on long drives. They are excellent long distance mile munchers.

Unfortunately, they look boring (The E60 SE goes a step further and actually looks stupid), have tiny wheels and the lack of M Sport suspension and addition of 55 profile tyres mean that although the fundamentals of good handling remain there is noticeably more bodyroll.
 
If it helps - I have experience of owning a 03 e39 530d. I did over 20000miles (80k-100k) in 6 months while driving it, and thoroughly enjoyed every mile. There are many buyers guides out there, so I won't bother, but the only maintenance I had to do apart from servicing &tyres was an inline fuel pump (£100 from ebay) and the propshaft coupling (which I didn't have to do, it just made it nicer) about £100 too.

It was a manual, I got between 39 and 52mpg out of tanks depending on how I drove it and it had plenty of power waiting in the wings. I think my e39 had magic powers though as I don't know many others who got figures like that, and I don't drive like my gran.
 
[TW]Fox;15090577 said:
The 5 is quieter, neither ride absolutely brilliantly in Sport form (The E39 is better on the standard 17 inch wheels, but the E46 comes with 18's) and you do get a bit of jarring etc over expansion joints and anything more than billiardtable surfaces but it's not 'omg awful'. It's the sort of thing the driver doesn't notice, though your passengers might complain.
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Coming from a Zetec-S with stiffer suspension and 18s, I don't mind a firmer ride! The 18s are a pain in terms of parking though, but thats life

[TW]Fox;15090577 said:
Whilst they exist an Imole Red E46 330d Sport is going to take some finding! Do you want a touring for space or looks?
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Space really - I don't have a dog but my best friend does and we will quite often go away for weekends - she wouldnt appreciate being put in a saloon boot :)

I also prefer the looks over the saloon, but its not the main factor.

I'm not in a huge rush to change, I'm happy to just keep an eye open for the right car to come about
 
The E46 is 2 years newer in design terms than the E39 so as you'd expect the interior is every so slightly more modern. It is also, however, a little bit less well built (Perhaps by design, they had to justify the additional cost of the E39 when new somehow!) (Things like the door handles, the armrest which sort of hangs over a cubby space whereas the E39 one sits so solidly you could stand on it) and the E39 is more spacious inside with a larger centre console etc etc.

It's really down to personal choice at the end of the day although I would suggest you find a good example of both and judge for yourself.
 
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