Sudden enlightenment and realisation of death...

dodgem · 14 Oct 2009 at 00:03

sara said:
all religions damn the unbelievers - it seems none of us will get anywhere as we're all wrong and heretics in some other religion's eyes.

See i think you have it slightly backwards there... (or at least religion does)

I think that each religion is essentially saying the same thing but with different names and words. On the whole, religion encourages you to respect your fellow man (or woman, though sometimes it's skewed in the man's favour

) and generally live a full life without detrement to anyone else. Fine by me, i'll just ignore the bits about worsipping one deity and all others will lead to damnation :cool:

GreatAuk · 14 Oct 2009 at 00:56

dodgem said:
See i think you have it slightly backwards there... (or at least religion does)

I think that each religion is essentially saying the same thing but with different names and words. On the whole, religion encourages you to respect your fellow man (or woman, though sometimes it's skewed in the man's favour ) and generally live a full life without detrement to anyone else. Fine by me, i'll just ignore the bits about worsipping one deity and all others will lead to damnation

Now, I don't know much about other religions, so what I say may be quite incorrect, but as I see it, some are based around performing duties for your god/gods , and others are about doing what you believe... like Hinduism has all the sacrifices and ceremonies, and tells you what to do, but christianity (as I see it) tells you to truly believe in god, and then do whatever you truly believe is right... I think that's a major difference, doing something for the sake of fulfilling commands, and doing something because of belief that you should do it.

I like to think of myself as a christian, but I haven't actually been to church for a while

- but I believe that after death there will be an afterlife... I don't like the concept of death, and would like to stay for a lot longer, but I think death is not the end - a comforting thought, one that without, I think I would get quite upset when thinking about death. [/thinkingoutloudlateatnight]

dodgem · 14 Oct 2009 at 00:57

Holliday said:
Not wanting to take this conversation too off-course. But I mentioned something in another post similar a while back that wasn't answered, and it hurts my brain to think about still.

Trying to relate it to this thread. Lets say, before you died you got cloned. This clone was identical to you both physically and mentally (accelerated growth or something). You then died. Who would that clone be? Who would ultimately be controlling it? 'You' would be dead so it wouldn't be you, but if it's an exact replica of you then what makes it a separate entity to you?

Can someone put me out my misery and try to explain it?

As i see it there are 2 ways to approach this...

1) There is no seperation between your physical body and your consiousness/soul. In which case, your clone is an atom for atom replica of yourself, and all of your memories, your personality (formed over your lifetime), your beliefs, your loves, etc are made up of those atoms in relationship to each other.

In which case you are each then in control of yourselves, and starting from the moment of cloning you become more and more different from each other.

2) Your conciousness, or soul, or thing that makes you unique is seperate from the physical stuff that makes up your body. Which means that your clone will actually be some kind of zombie, a lifeless living body without soul or personality or understanding. A machine that can perform the same functions as you, but has no emotional substance.

Perhaps there are more theories? But imo you either have faith that you are something more than a chemical reaction, or it's pretty pointless you being here

yer_averagejoe · 14 Oct 2009 at 01:28

i get that feeling sometimes, it just hits you. Its like when you think about how HUGE the universe is. Most of the time your mind is all like "yeah, its pretty big, but i'm not really capable of understanding at all how big that is, in relation to anything else.." But SOMETIMES, you have a shot of insight, a glimpse of understanding and a flash of conceptual truth brings you a fraction closer to realising (maybe not how big the universe is, but how small in comparisson we are) this fact and it makes your heart skip a beat. its frightening but exciting and its a very rare feeling.

Overlag · 14 Oct 2009 at 02:13

the idea of death really scares me. I want to be alive forever. I simply cant imagine that one day i will be... gone... nothing. It really ****s me up

uber soldat said:

omg romford station. lol

Kristoph · 14 Oct 2009 at 02:16

Reading your post ^ almost gave me a panic attack. It hit me again.

I think I'm gonna avoid reading this thread anymore.

Before you all fall asleep tonight, think about your sleep as if it were death. I know you might have a dream or two, but if you get a good nights sleep and don't dream, it goes by in an instant... You're out of it, ignore the senses and breathing, and remove the ability to dream, and you're pretty much dead.

Chimerical · 14 Oct 2009 at 02:22

Its a good thing that everyone dies eventually. Life is mundane trash most of the time and when you're old and your body starts falling to pieces it'll just be worse.

The prospect of death should be comforting really.

Overlag · 14 Oct 2009 at 02:42

Jimmyboyo said:
It did quite the opposite for me. Since I realised that everything I ever do will be forgotten within a generation or so at best, I took on a rather nihilistic view of life. I dropped out of Uni, stopped leaving my home, and lost interest in anything much beyond being distracted from how empty I feel.

Staring into infinity should carry a mental health warning

hmm ditto

Amnesia · 14 Oct 2009 at 05:43

the thought of death doesnt scare me and i hope i can keep a brave face when my time comes...i wouldnt want family members around me feeling sorry for me.

saying that i did feel like i was going to die once...the thing that did bother me was that i was alone...i wanted someone to be there with me.

but hey i didnt die lol.

Nitefly · 14 Oct 2009 at 10:09

Chimerical said:
Its a good thing that everyone dies eventually. Life is mundane trash most of the time and when you're old and your body starts falling to pieces it'll just be worse.

The prospect of death should be comforting really.

Speak for yourself!

ringo747 · 14 Oct 2009 at 10:26

uber soldat said:

If the guy responsible for this doesn't believe in a god then why is he so bothered about making sure his message gets out to other people? I believe everyone has some level of god consciousness and therefore the desire to fight against this is evident in such actions like this guy. Really if he didn't care or he didn't think there was a god then why go to all the effort of spending huge amounts of money on this ad! Tis crazy.

On another note if it said "there is probably no allah" then there would have been uproar. Attacking the deity of our own countrys main religion (Christian country) is just typical of the state this country is in. Can you imagine buses in a Muslim country attacking their own spiritual leader??

SfnX · 14 Oct 2009 at 10:31

Only think about death...when the time comes around. no one knows whats gonna happen, i dont really believe in god anymore since i had a long think about it. i believe when you die...you die, but we will see

morguk · 14 Oct 2009 at 12:07

Holliday said:
Not wanting to take this conversation too off-course. But I mentioned something in another post similar a while back that wasn't answered, and it hurts my brain to think about still.

Trying to relate it to this thread. Lets say, before you died you got cloned. This clone was identical to you both physically and mentally (accelerated growth or something). You then died. Who would that clone be? Who would ultimately be controlling it? 'You' would be dead so it wouldn't be you, but if it's an exact replica of you then what makes it a separate entity to you?

Can someone put me out my misery and try to explain it?

Well. You would be dead, but to everyone else you are still alive walking around as the clone is an exact replica of you including memories and thoughts. It's like the teleportation thing, the original dies the the teleported (created) person or thing is an exact replica.

Tefal · 14 Oct 2009 at 12:12

ringo747 said:
On another note if it said "there is probably no allah" then there would have been uproar. Attacking the deity of our own countrys main religion (Christian country) is just typical of the state this country is in. Can you imagine buses in a Muslim country attacking their own spiritual leader??

Yeah it's a disgrace we let this happen, we should defiantly go to the system where we would beat/kill/torture said person for daring to commit such a heinous act of free speech.

I mean saying there probably isn't a god well that's just shocking. next they'll be saying unicorns probably don't exist.

RDM · 14 Oct 2009 at 12:15

Chimerical said:
Its a good thing that everyone dies eventually. Life is mundane trash most of the time and when you're old and your body starts falling to pieces it'll just be worse.

The prospect of death should be comforting really.

But then you miss out on all the good things that come along with life. Who cares if it is mundane trash most of the time when a simple smile from the right person can make it so much better?

Holliday · 14 Oct 2009 at 12:16

morguk said:
Well. You would be dead, but to everyone else you are still alive walking around as the clone is an exact replica of you including memories and thoughts. It's like the teleportation thing, the original dies the the teleported (created) person or thing is an exact replica.

If what your saying did happen, then would 'you' be in control of the clone?

It's easier to me If I just relate it to sight. If your original body died, then surely all you see now is darkness/nothing because you're dead. Would you then start seeing things from the clones perspective? And if not, then what makes you a separate entity from your clone, since you're both exactly the same?

ringo747 · 14 Oct 2009 at 12:17

Tefal said:
Yeah it's a disgrace we let this happen, we should defiantly go to the system where we would beat/kill/torture said person for daring to commit such a heinous act of free speech.

I mean saying there probably isn't a god well that's just shocking. next they'll be saying unicorns probably don't exist.

Its not the issue of freedom of speech here. Neither is it saying that it is ok to kill/beat etc.

The issue is that for a predominately Christian country it seems fine to almost denounce the originator of the main religion! If this was mentioning all the smaller ethnic groups then it would have caused an uproar.

platypus · 14 Oct 2009 at 12:21

Kristoph said:
I'm a fairly positive person, but when the topic of death comes up I like to feel that I'm going to be able to face it and accept it when it arrives; with a smile on my face and content that what is about to happen will be an adventure.

I was just having a chat about it with a housemate, and I had a moment that I've never felt before... I realised that what I base my beliefs on (science and not an ounce of religion), will mean that I'll never realise I'm dead, I'll be as aware of being dead as I was aware of being unborn.

It sent a shiver down my spine and sunk into me on a whole new level unlike ever before.

Have you taken a second recently to think about what you believe will happen? I like to think it makes you appreciate things and try to fulfill life a little more.

Meh.

And you call that Enlightenment? Odd.

RDM · 14 Oct 2009 at 12:21

ringo747 said:
The issue is that for a predominately Christian country it seems fine to almost denounce the originator of the main religion!

Isn't that sort of the point though? Saying "There is probably no Odin" really isn't going to get the message across to the majority of people in the UK. Not to mention that God in this case is the Abrahamic god and so is also the God of the Jews and Muslims. (Allah just pretty much meaning "The God" in arabic).

siuko · 14 Oct 2009 at 12:24

Death itself does not worry me at all - when I am dead there will be nothing - so whats to worry about?

It is the reason why I try and enjoy every day - as I only have one life so why not enjoy it and stop worrying about rubbish

My only fear is the pain that may be involved leading upto death... that worries me!