Help needed for our tropical fish tank!!

[waynelle09]

Just wondering if anyone can help us.

We bought our 1st tank on 31st August and have been having major problems with the Ammonia ever since. We have 4 fish in the tank atm, that being 2 male Guppies, 1 female Molly and 1 Red Honey Gourami. We have been doing 70% water changes everyday for the past 2 weeks, when we do a change, we test the water straight after and its always 0.25, then after a few hrs it starts to rise to around 1.0. Surely the filter should be able to deal with this now?
We have the Interpet PF2 filter and have a 64 litre tank.
Its starting to get slightly annoying now as nothing seems to be working no matter how hard we try!
The PH is fine, and obviously there are no traces of Nitrite of Nitrate as the tank just seems to be stuck at this stage.

Hope someone can help...thanks

 

[neodude]

70% change every day? I would've said that was way too much. If it's a freshwater tank I wouldn't even bother checking for ammonia levels, just keep the water at the right temp and do a 70% water change every month or so and you're good to go.

 

[Admiral Huddy]

70% is too much I would have thought. 50% max is what i've done as the bacteria must have a chance of developing in your filter.

Are you taking Nitrite readings? If the Nitrite is starting to build up, then although this is also toxic, it's a good indication that the cycle is well in progress but it can take time to complete. Your fish are quite hardy so should be ok. Don't be tempted to add more until your cycle is complete and established.

If things aren't improving, cut back their feeding to once a day or once every other day, until the amonia is gone.

 

[Admiral Huddy]

70% change every day? I would've said that was way too much. If it's a freshwater tank I wouldn't even bother checking for ammonia levels, just keep the water at the right temp and do a 70% water change every month or so and you're good to go.

No you must check your Amonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and ph levels regularly when you are cycling a new tank. When established, check once a week or every other week as part of it's maintenance schedule.

 

[waynelle09]

So you all seem to think that doing the 70% change will do more harm than good?
Well we were advised to do 70% water changes by our local fish shop.
So that needs to be knocked on the head then? We thought that the bacteria was in the filter, not the tank??

Our Nitrite and Nitrate are reading 0 so the tank is still at the 1st stage.

We just worry that if we dont do daily water changes then the ammonia will get too high and the fish will die.

We did feed them twice a day but for the past couple of weeks we've only fed them once a day, and we've missed a day or two. We take out whatever is left after a couple of mins.

We have an API test kit so we test the ammonia a few times a day to monitor the levels with it being high, everything else is fine.

 

[neodude]

No you must check your Amonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and ph levels regularly when you are cycling a new tank. When established, check once a week or every other week as part of it's maintenance schedule.

"Must" is a very strong word. I had a successful tropical tank for over 10 years and never once checked any levels other than temp.

 

[stoofa]

70%-75% water changes only really come into play when things are "going wrong".
It sounds like you're currently in this situation.

Did you go through a long fishless cycle before you added fish?
So had the tank up and running for around 3-4 weeks with no fish, adding ammonia sources (like food)?
This fishless cycle gets your filter and media used to dealing with the waste products.

You could try using some "ammonia down" product - this helped us when we had a slight peak in ammonia about three months after the tank was fist filled.

 

[Manlove is my forte]

When I set up a new tank I :

1. Clean Gravel
2. add gravel to tank
3. add water
4. add dechlorinator as recommended on bottle
5. add decorations, filter and heater
6. Turn on
7. Add a few tetras to seed the tank
8. 25% water change once a week for first 3 weeks
9. 10% water change from then on
10. add more fish gradually

I don't do fishless cycles because I cant see the point. I just make sure that the fish I add are hardy enough to cope, and that I only add a few relative to the size of the tank

 

[waynelle09]

So you would recommend we stick to what we are doing then?

Well, we waited around 9 days before adding fish. We added a source of ammonia but only once, then a couple of days later the tank water went very cloudy, this lasted for around 7 days. Then a few days later we added fish, including some neon tetra's, they started to die off after a few days and this is when the problems started.

We are all new to this so we just took advice from our local fish shop who said we can add them after a week, I'm starting to see that we maybe shouldn't of done this.

We have noticed a product called Ammonia Remover in the shop, would u recommend that?

We have tested our tap water too to see if that was the problem and that is 0.

 

[waynelle09]

When I set up a new tank I :

1. Clean Gravel
2. add gravel to tank
3. add water
4. add dechlorinator as recommended on bottle
5. add decorations, filter and heater
6. Turn on
7. Add a few tetras to seed the tank
8. 25% water change once a week for first 3 weeks
9. 10% water change from then on
10. add more fish gradually

I don't do fishless cycles because I cant see the point. I just make sure that the fish I add are hardy enough to cope, and that I only add a few relative to the size of the tank

Yeah well the shop we went to more or less said the same as you...that unless you add fish, then the filter has nothing to deal with so he recommended we add some guppies. We did add a source of ammonia and left it for 8 days before we added any fish though.

 

[Toker]

I wouldn't recommend "ammonia remover", you don't want your tank relying on chemical additives - you need the tank to cycle and balance itself out.

Personally I'd do 20% changes every couple of days to see if it lets the tank settle

 

[Manlove is my forte]

So you would recommend we stick to what we are doing then?

Well, we waited around 9 days before adding fish. We added a source of ammonia but only once, then a couple of days later the tank water went very cloudy, this lasted for around 7 days. Then a few days later we added fish, including some neon tetra's, they started to die off after a few days and this is when the problems started.

We are all new to this so we just took advice from our local fish shop who said we can add them after a week, I'm starting to see that we maybe shouldn't of done this.

We have noticed a product called Ammonia Remover in the shop, would u recommend that?

We have tested our tap water too to see if that was the problem and that is 0.

I'd slow down the water changes, keep doing them daily, but reduce the water your taking out each day (go to 50% then 40% then 30% then 25%)
Then try to do them each alternate day then every 3 days then every 4 days etc until your doing it weekly.


Feed your fish about a pinch of food every day (if not less)

they should literally gobble the lot up in a few seconds (it certainly should not last more than 30 seconds).

Make sure the filter is not clogged. next time you do a water change take the filter out of the tank and put it in the bucket of fishwater, then dismantle it and squeeze the sponges a few times in the bucket of water, put it back together and put back in your tank.

Make sure when doing water changes that your filter remains submerged for as much time as possible, the good bacteria can die of quite quickly.

Do not clean your filter in fresh water, do not replace all your filter media at once.

Also are you declorinating your water?

 

[pastymuncher]

Your fish are dying because the tank is'nt ready for them yet. The tank should be cycled before adding fish and there are additives that can speed up the process such as Tetra Bactozym, Nutrafin Cycle and Waterlife Biomature.

Are you using a water conditioner when doing the water changes? You need this to remove the harmful stuff (metals, chlorine, chloramine etc) from the tap water. Doing such massive water changes every day will stress your fish even more than they already are.

 

[waynelle09]

Toker - Yeah I had a feeling Ammonia Remover would be a bad idea, which is why I asked for a second opinion

Manlove - Ok, well we will reduce the amount of water we are taking out of the tank like you said and hopefully that will help.

Oh, our fish have big appetites, your lucky if its there 10 seconds

We have cleaned the filter a couple of times now in the tank water, we have changed the carbon as we've been told it only lasts roughly 6 weeks.

I think tha filter's out of the water about 20mins when we do the water changes, so not too long really??!! Altho when the tank is half empty, the filter is still full because it is designed to store water inside when it is turned off, it is the Interpet PF2.

We use Tapsafe everytime we do a water change and add the correct dosage to every bucket we put back in the tank. Sometimes we add a little bit more too.

Pastymuncher - We've heard of those products before but get different opinions all the time, some ppl recommend them and other dont so we've never been sure what to do on that one

 

[Admiral Huddy]

So you all seem to think that doing the 70% change will do more harm than good?
Well we were advised to do 70% water changes by our local fish shop.
So that needs to be knocked on the head then? We thought that the bacteria was in the filter, not the tank??

Our Nitrite and Nitrate are reading 0 so the tank is still at the 1st stage.

We just worry that if we dont do daily water changes then the ammonia will get too high and the fish will die.

We did feed them twice a day but for the past couple of weeks we've only fed them once a day, and we've missed a day or two. We take out whatever is left after a couple of mins.

We have an API test kit so we test the ammonia a few times a day to monitor the levels with it being high, everything else is fine.

The bacteria is in the filter so don't attempt to change anything there. My opinion is that the purpose of the water changes is to dilute the amonia, not get rid of it as the bacteria needs to establish itself to change this nitrite. Be patient though.. It can take some time. However, you should now be seeing Nitrite which is a sign that the cycle is underway. You do have media in your pump yeah?

I would only put one pinch full of food every other day and do a 50% water change every day for the next 7 days. If the Nitrite starts to appear then things are looking good. Keep doing this until all the Amonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate have gone, then you can settle back a bit and re-think your schedule.

Do not use any additives.. let nature take it's course.

"Must" is a very strong word. I had a successful tropical tank for over 10 years and never once checked any levels other than temp.

Well done. I only check mine once a month as a matter of precaution.

We have cleaned the filter a couple of times now in the tank water, we have changed the carbon as we've been told it only lasts roughly 6 weeks.

I think tha filter's out of the water about 20mins when we do the water changes, so not too long really??!! Altho when the tank is half empty, the filter is still full because it is designed to store water inside when it is turned off, it is the Interpet PF2.

Do not change anything with your filter.. Don't be tempted to clean it. Let it get really mucky inside and let the bacteria build up.

When you put tap water in, make sure your tape safe is in the first bucket going in. Don't use anymore or any less than what it states. Don't be too frightened either to add warm water, so the temperature of the tank is maintained.

 

[waynelle09]

The bacteria is in the filter so don't attempt to change anything there. My opinion is that the purpose of the water changes is to dilute the amonia, not get rid of it as the bacteria needs to establish itself to change this nitrite. Be patient though.. It can take some time. However, you should now be seeing Nitrite which is a sign that the cycle is underway. You do have media in your pump yeah?

I would only put one pinch full of food every other day and do a 50% water change every day for the next 7 days. If the Nitrite starts to appear then things are looking good. Keep doing this until all the Amonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate have gone, then you can settle back a bit and re-think your schedule.

Do not use any additives.. let nature take it's course.





Well done. I only check mine once a month as a matter of precaution.

Ok, I just thought that the Nitrite should have formed by now as its been about 7 weeks now since we 1st set the tank up and we've been doing massive water changes for the past 2 weeks...and still we just have ammonia.

Yeah we have foam in our filter which we got with the tank and we also have replacement ones too. We have put a Bio-ball in the filter too from a very mature tank to see if that will speed the process along, is this a good idea?

 

[Admiral Huddy]

which suggest the cycle hasn't started because the amonia is being diluted too much.

50% water change every day, cut back on feeding, don't even touch the filter.. see what happens in 7 days. Although amonia might not go away immediatley, if nitrite appears, this is a good sign that things are happening for you.

Yes, "Squeezing" as it's known is a great idea. In fact, when Ichange the media, I squeeze the exisiting media over the new.

And sounds to me like you are trying everything which is good thing, but you need to stick with basics and not panic.. be patient.

 

[waynelle09]

so you think we should add the Tapsafe BEFORE the water? We've always added it afterwards, once we get the temp right. As we sometimes have to pour a little water out to add more cold/warm water so that would just mean adding more Tapsafe...??!

 

[stoofa]

I wouldn't recommend "ammonia remover", you don't want your tank relying on chemical additives - you need the tank to cycle and balance itself out.

Personally I'd do 20% changes every couple of days to see if it lets the tank settle

Very true.
However if ammonia levels are as the OP mentioned then using some to temporarily lower the levels would work.
It greatly reduces the chance of his fish dying.
They are already suffering due to the high ammonia - ammonia remover would stop them suffering.

 

[waynelle09]

which suggest the cycle hasn't started because the amonia is being diluted to much.

50% every day, cut back on feeding, don't even touch the filter.. see what happens in 7 days. Although amonia might not go away immediatley, if nitrite appears, this is a good sign that things are happening for you.

Ok, thank you.

We also have started add Filter Start which we put in every time we do a change...is this right?

Sorry for all the questions but it seems like we have been given a lot of mis-guided info from our local fish shop so just want a 2nd opinion
The shop told us to use Safe Water, rather than Filter start which I think may be wrong as it says on the box that you should add that to the water every other day for the 1st 2 weeks of the cycle which we never done because of the shop telling us not to.