Government Scrappage Scheme

who wants a ten year old banger? you could equally argue that the scrappage scheme is making it more affordable to buy middle of the road (4-6 year old cars) as more people are scrapping/buying new meaning less demand for nearly new...and a few years old...

you cant just blame labour they do this scheme in the US too...are they under labours thumb? are conservatives going to do it differently?
 
What should have been done, is that all these cars traded in under the Scrappage scheme should be taken to a central depot for each area, and those that are still in good condition, are made available for trade.

Owners of much older cars are invited to, for a nominal fee to cover costs, swap their old(er) car for a new(er) car of the same class. For example, an owner of an old Sierra could swap it for a Mondeo. An old Golf for a newer Golf.

This will then put the perfectly servicable 10 year old cars back on the road, and the old(er) cars will be put in their place for scrap, if they're not claimed elsewhere.

So, in the end, all you're left with is those cars that have a couple of months MOT left on them, but is known that realistically, they won't pass another MOT.
 
Nickg said:
who wants a ten year old banger?
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No one, but people do need them. £1000 cars are brilliant as first cars, cars for parents on a budget, cars to learn mechanics on, project cars, second cars for leaving parked in dodgy area of town while you catch the train, cars for putting uber mileage onto for 6 months and then throwing away.... etc....
 
hmm they are not hoovering up any car 10 years or older...and scrapping it...i think people are making far too much out of this altogether.

i wonder what the % of 10 year old+ cars gone for scrappage scheme are... i would suspect a VERY LOW %. its just shifting demand, so that those who would have scrapped their car or traded it in for nowt get a bit more and have something to prompt them to get a 'brand newie' instead of nearly new or part used car...

otherwise what incentive is there to EVER buy a new car? there isnt, it doesnt make sense... therefore the industry will struggle..
 
Are you suggesting that before the Scrappage Scheme, nobody bought new cars because there was no incentive or demand? And now that you can get a couple of hundred quid for a car that's worth a couple of hundred quid (lets face it, if it were worth more, you'd sell it privately), more people are going to spend £10,000+ on new cars?

Edit: and as an aside, i would like a 10+ year old car. Makes no difference to me how old the car is. If it's sound, in good condition mechanically and aesthetically and unlikely to cost me thousand of pounds in the future on maintenence. The S40 is a good car, from what i hear. It's solid, and at 60,000 miles, didn't deserve to be in that yard. Unless scrapping cars at between 30% to 50% their possible lifetime is "efficient".
 
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Are you suggesting that before the Scrappage Scheme, nobody bought new cars because there was no incentive or demand?
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no. i am saying that in a declining economy, the reality is there is little incentive, or motivating factors to buy a new car, when a nearly new, or part owned is available...

thus we have seen huge oversupply and lack of demand... or did you miss this bit?

given that as a truth, then how else can you stimulate the new car market AND try to remove less green cars at the same time? if you have some better suggestions?

IF a car has only 60k on it and held up great, it should be worth more than 2k right? and therefore not ripe for scrappage?
 
If someone can't raise £10,000 for a new car, how is an extra tiny bit going to help? Are you telling me that there's thousands of people out there who were a couple of hundred quid off of affording a new car and this scheme has magically enabled people to now afford something they couldn't before? I'm guessing a lot of this is done on finance, which the rates have been cheekily increased by most dealers to recoup some of the £1000 contribution that they have to make.
 
Nickg said:
well he figured he got a better deal, the dealer sold a car, keeping more people in business...the manufacturer shifted a motor, allowing their production line to squeeze another out to take its place, keeping more people in jobs...

who then go on to spend money, and using the economic stimulus multiplier, we can see how many times that money as an injection would rotate around, creating more wealth.

If he had not bought the car, do you think he would have spent half, and then still spent the other half he saved on luxury items, or would he have just not spent it at all?

given that the world economy is essentially so fragile and is driven by consumerism, policies which bolster and aid further consumerism are a short term fix to the problems that had been ocurring with the spending freeze of 6 months ago..
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Other than the dealer making a couple of k (if that) how does this transaction:
A- Help the British economy?
B- reduce C02?
C- Benefit the purchaser?

Mazdas are not built in Britain, no parts are maufactured in britain, Mazda's financial services are offered by a spanish bank, and the amount of VAT paid on the transaction is reduced as that is the mechanism used to provide the incentive.

All thats happened is another monkey has wasted a shed load of cash.

Now, if the scheme was only applicable to models built IN the UK, there might be some sense to it.
 
dude our forte is retail, believe it. did he order it direct from asian cars 4 u . asia?

this bill, like cutting VAT is an effort to get people spending... the government doesnt care what u spend it on, as long as you are spending.

built in the uk makes little difference and would probably be seen as too 'protectionist'... afteralll shouldnt we be saying to our industry, 'be fit enough to compete, you wont be gettign any special treatment'

also bear in mind that the economic catastrophe is global. and we are all pretty much in it together. we cant recover without other countries recovering too, so trying to force customers to 'buy british' wouldnt be a great idea anyway...why not just put tariffs on all foreign built cars? hell why not just ban them altogether along with any car manufactured in the UK whos profits will go to an overseas holding company? oh yea cos thats pretty much all of them.

If someone can't raise £10,000 for a new car, how is an extra tiny bit going to help? Are you telling me that there's thousands of people out there who were a couple of hundred quid off of affording a new car and this scheme has magically enabled people to now afford something they couldn't before?
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no its the perception of value... say i have a £500 banger.. and im thinking of changing... buying new and getting 2k value for my £500 suddenly sounds pretty good...ill quote fox, its the cost to change, the the absolute value either way that is important.
 
Nickg said:
who wants a ten year old banger?
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Didn't you used to drive one? Why are all scrappage qualifying cars suddenly 'bangers'?

Whats banger about a 1999 Volvo S40?

you could equally argue that the scrappage scheme is making it more affordable to buy middle of the road (4-6 year old cars) as more people are scrapping/buying new meaning less demand for nearly new...and a few years old...
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You could argue this but you'd be compeltely wrong, so unless you didnt really understand what you were talking about, why would you argue this?
 
Nickg said:
no its the perception of value... say i have a £500 banger.. and im thinking of changing... buying new and getting 2k value for my £500 suddenly sounds pretty good...ill quote fox, its the cost to change, the the absolute value either way that is important.
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Except that pre scrappage he'd have been able to negotiate at least £1500 off the sticker price anyway. Who pays list price for a Mazda6? Nobody with a brain thats for sure!

Remember that £1000 of the £2000 comes from the retailer. This is out of their margin, the same margin they had before and the same margin you were able to bite chunks out of when haggling.

The only 'free money' is the £1000 from the government, so if your car is worth £500 tops all you really benefit from, max, is an extra £500.

So basically your mate at work has spent what, £15-£20k based on an extra 500 quid saving.

Except he won't see it like this, he'll think he's got 2 grand off. Because people don't think.
 
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Didn't you used to drive one? Why are all scrappage qualifying cars suddenly 'bangers'?
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no my car was a prime example of a Primera with full leather and was a limited edition...therefore you would not scrap it...

Whats banger about a 1999 Volvo S40?
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thats my point... so why would you scrap it...

just because there is a scrappage policy in place doesnt mean that everyone should automatically scrap everything 10yrs + i thought i made that obvious above. being 10 years old doesnt make a car a banger... being 10 years old and a delapidated piece of crud does. are all 10 years old cars bangers? no...so should they all be traded in? no.

Except that pre scrappage he'd have been able to negotiate at least £1500 off the sticker price anyway. Who pays list price for a Mazda6? Nobody with a brain thats for sure!
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the guy is quite savvy, he sells delmonte orange in the office, if it wasnt a good deal in one way or another, i doubt he would have done it tbh...like i said his old car was a banger probably the wrong side of £500.

You could argue this but you'd be compeltely wrong
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go on...im all ears
 
Nickg said:
no my car was a prime example of a Primera with full leather and was a limited edition...therefore you would not scrap it...

thats my point... so why would you scrap it...
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You would, because scrappage exists.

Imagine.. you drive a Nissan Primera GT. You like it, you've had it for years, it has a nice fresh MOT, you are a reasonably nice chap with a decent salary and plenty of cash.

Your Primera GT remains in great condition and is most certainly not a banger.

But we all tire of cars, don't we? We get bored. We fancy something new. So you decide the time is right to part with the Primera. Thing is, its a Primera. It's 10 years old. It might be a great car but its not worth a lot of money.

So, tempted by the idea of getting £2k off a brand new car, you pop down to the dealer in your Primera and trade it in for scrappage.

You drive away in a new car and what happens to the Primera?

It is crushed. It is not legally allowed to be re-used. It must be destroyed. It's not a banger, there is nothing wrong with it.

Please stop thinking the only people using scrappage are those who feel they have to because they drive a nail on its last legs. The UK has some of the lowest used car values anywhere in the world and as a result perfectly serviceable, good conditon cars are not worth a huge amount of money.

go on...im all ears
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There has been no drop in average 5-6 year old used cars prices versus the same time last year. Infact Eurotax Glass's were saying prices were actually up slightly.
 
thing is the fox, your profiling is wrong...

someone who owned a primera GT (read budget performance repmobile) isnt going to trade in for a new 'something bland and new and terrible'... the reason they bought a £2k 10 year old primera GT was because they wanted something good, but also good value...

for instance i bet cars like:

Primera GT
Mondeo ST
Escort Turbo
XR2's
Sierra cosworth
Civic Type R
Integra Type E
Preludes

are the LEAST traded in cars of them all,

wheras jims 1.4 almera that looks like its been to vietnam and back, had little maintanence other than dreaded yearly MOT...i.e cars with no incremental value or real usability are more likely to go for the chop!

and he will go buy a 9k fiat panda or whatever it is ppl buy these days

the former, who had a primera gt and wants a megane r26 - even the 2k scrappage wont make up the difference, so there is no point doing it as the cost to change is just too high. so they would sell 2nd hand, and go for another 2nd hand 'performance' orientated motor....for example fox, you went for 2nd hand...i went for 2nd hand..


for the latter Almera, or lada, or corsa wielding driver, the 2k is a large % towards the newer car as much as like 20%...
 
Nickg said:
someone who owned a primera GT (read budget performance repmobile) isnt going to trade in for a new 'something bland and new and terrible'... the reason they bought a £2k 10 year old primera GT was because they wanted something good, but also good value...
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In an ideal world, sure. Remember some people own cars like this without even knowing what they are. They wanted 'A Primera' and the nearest one was a GT and they liked the seats.

Not seen any 'scrappage' GT's but there have been scrappage Mondeo ST24's. With RSAP :(
 
Nickg said:
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just because there is a scrappage policy in place doesnt mean that everyone should automatically scrap everything 10yrs +
...
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I think that this possibility escapes some people; they believe that they will wake up one morning to discover that there isn't a single car 10 years or older left on the road; overnight the scrappage faeries will have stolen them all away.

These law-abiding drones are so accustomed to doing as they are told by the Government that they simply cannot comprehend the principle of a voluntary scheme ;)
 
[TW]Fox;15126703 said:
In an ideal world, sure. Remember some people own cars like this without even knowing what they are. They wanted 'A Primera' and the nearest one was a GT and they liked the seats.

Not seen any 'scrappage' GT's but there have been scrappage Mondeo ST24's. With RSAP :(
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well i guess it depends on the condition of the 'block' and car as a whole too...

for instance i know the ST24 engine can go 'soft'...obviously its expensive to replace and therefore when it is econimically unviable to repair a car, it can be more viable to use the car scrappage scheme...same if the suspension 'went' or if a transmission blew...in insurance they call it, uneconomic repair.. in these cases, a trade in and scrap makes perfect sense...

also the ST24 is probably thirstier than a GT, higher emissions and therefore more expensive to keep running later in life...

but from your response i can see you understand my point!
 
stockhausen said:
I think that this possibility escapes some people; they believe that they will wake up one morning to discover that there isn't a single car 10 years or older left on the road; overnight the scrappage faeries will have stolen them all away.
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Not at all. We just hate to see perfectly working, perfectly serviceable nice cars being crushed. It just seems so wrong, especially when they are being crushed to acheive flawed aims.

I dont expect you to understand because your thoughts are so clinical and black and white you make me seem like a balanced individual :eek:
 
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