If Royal Mail went on strike permenantly

[Deputy General Spokesman for the Communication Workers' Union, Dave Ward] accused Royal Mail's Mark Higson, Chief Executive Adam Crozier, and the Business Secretary Lord Mandelson of deliberately undermining the talks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/8319388.stm
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None of the three people accused have been directly involved in the negotiations but appear to have been determined to ensure that the strike goes ahead.

Shades of Thatcher, MacGregor and the Miners back in 1984.
 
I have an uncle and one of my best mates is a postie (mate is with Unite so not striking, my uncle is) so it isnt easy for me to say this, but if they go on strike they should ******* replace them all.

As said above they are using the power that they "think" they have over people, they think (and this is not the regular posties on the street but the unionist parasites who draw blood from society) that they have everyones ***** in a vice and they can simply so what they want and get what they want.

No they cannot. Its a pity Thatcher still is not around, whilst I have nothing against the general workers a strong message of sacking or replacing them all during the strike with no guaranteed job to return to would send out a strong message to the unionist scum.

We cannot afford, and will not tolerate being held hostage by those who are abusing their power for their own gain (the union leaders) no one else out there in the private sector are having it great in these times so why does the public sector deserve any more? They do not, simple.

I would rather see the whole damn country including medical privatised before we bow once again before the ridiculous demands the public sector continually places upon us.

/rant off
 
manveruppd said:
But all those letters that TNT and other private companies carry STILL get from the sorting office to your door via Royal Mail, and that's the most labour-intensive (and therefore expensive) part of the job!

seriously guys, read the article I linked to on the previous page. It'll give you a whole new perspective to the problem. http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n18/maya01_.html
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I think you missed the word ''here''.
Royal mail does not exist in the NL. There is no more state controlled postal company, everything has been privatized. TNT bought the state controlled TPG...
TNT does collection, sorting, transport and delivery. All the mailboxes on the street are TNT's. I mean, I work in both collection and sorting and it's definitely done by TNT :p.
My mates company ( I mean where he works:p), Sandd, does exactly the same, except, that it lacks mailboxes and the amount of (post)offices so collection is restricted to what big customers offer to Sandd's few offices/business points...
Selectmail works exactly the same.

They all 3 have their own sorting, transport, and delivery processes, the difference is that TNT happens to have many many post offices from the TPG era and owns all the mailboxes on the street and collects them.


Why I said how it is here, is, that once privatized, any company could disappear or go on strike and people would just use the competitor instead for their mail. TNT going on strike would result in people going to Sandd and Selectmail offices instead for their mail. If royal mail would strike, the same would happen imo. Competitors would pick up the business in no time at all...
 
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stockhausen said:
None of the three people accused have been directly involved in the negotiations but appear to have been determined to ensure that the strike goes ahead.

Shades of Thatcher, MacGregor and the Miners back in 1984.
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Unless of course Dave Ward isn't telling the truth? He isn't exactly unbiased in the affair after all.
 
I have a little score card for Royal Mail. Every time they leave me a "sorry you weren't in" card when I'm actually in (which seeing as I work from home 3/5ths the working week), I give them a cross. They're up to 27 crosses, and 27 complaints :).

Royal Mail - where the posties strike more than they work. *****.
 
so

when
do they go on strike
iam waiting for 360 games 2 come from ebay

been waiting for 3 days -- so does that mean i need 2 wait until wednesday thursday ( next week ) for them

????????????????????? :confused:
 
snowdog said:
Why I said how it is here, is, that once privatized, any company could disappear or go on strike and people would just use the competitor instead for their mail. TNT going on strike would result in people going to Sandd and Selectmail offices instead for their mail. If royal mail would strike, the same would happen imo. Competitors would pick up the business in no time at all...
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That's also happening already with just the threat of the strikes announced.

I've ordered 6 different deliveries via the internet this past week and all of them have used another mail service because of the threat of action.

I also have something I need to send which I'd usually use Royal Mail recorded for, but now I'll use a courier.

If I'm doing this, and I'm not a major post user, I can only imagine they must already be loosing a ton of business.
 
I just had a post delivery, before 9am too!!!!!! :eek: :D

They should strike every week if this is the sort of service we're going to get. :p

Grats to my local postie. :)
 
Paul11 said:
what is it that the unions want ?

what is it that they are striking over?
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Union list of demands (with some added commentary from me)

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=15109558&postcount=42

http://www.cwu.org/royal-mail-dispute.html

What we are for: Fairness
· A new job security agreement - reflecting the sheers scale of change our members face. Sustainable full-time jobs, no compulsory redundancies, maximising choice over the future.
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Sounds good, but does it fit with the needs of the business' customers or the other demands, let's see...

· Benefit from change - modern and enhanced terms and conditions. Higher pay, shorter working week, better attendance patterns providing more quality time away from work, including weekends.
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There are a few ways this can be done, but are they practical? A shorter working week still achieving full time hours means longer days. Are longer days compatible with the needs of RM's customers and their desired delivery schedule? Is the change from regular postmen to non-regular (because if you are working less week days, then you'll, at the least, have to share a round.

I personally love my short working weeks (I work 3 days in, 3 days out, 12 hour days), but I'm not sure how that would fit in with the customer needs of the postal service. (Think of the customer opposition to the change in mail times which means that mail can be delivered at any point in the day rather than the first and second post system previously employed)

· A better local working environment - work systems that ensure daily workload is based on fair and objective measurement so that postal workers can cope. Staff and CWU having a genuine say over how the job should be done.
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Define fair and objective measurements, especially when the CWU are involved. The CWU don't believe in performance targets that are in the middle of the bell curve, rather than at the bottom, so their desired targets are unlikely to drive an increase in the productivity. Of course, highly unrealistic targets are damaging, both to productivity and to morale, but so is giving too much influence to staff who are likely to vote themselves an easy life given half the chance. (Can't really blame them, I would too).

What we are against: Unfairness
· Royal Mail imposing change by diktat - not honouring national agreements leading to a part-time industry and compulsory redundancies.
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I'm not convinced this is happening, the national agreement did not prohibit redundancies or the creation of part time roles. In fact, part time working is probably the best solution to the customer desire for early deliveries. It is better in those terms to have larger numbers of staff on less hours... Unfortunately, the customer is being ignored in this.

· Royal Mail constantly driving down terms and conditions - not giving workers a real share in the savings that are being made or the benefits from automation. Continuous driving down of pay, earnings, pensions and conditions.
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The pension system at RM is insane, and that's why it's £6.8bn in the red, of course it needs to be changed, and yes, that does mean a reduction in entitlement. The reason is that the current Ponzi scheme is unsustainable.

With regards to the rest of it, they are far from making the general postal service profitable. It scraped a profit of £58m from a turnover of £6.7bn. That is a profit margin of less than 1%, they are far from showing real results from savings or automation yet.

· Royal Mail imposing unfair work rates to meet unrealistic local budget demands - chaos management creating workloads that people cannot cope with. A bullying managerial culture.
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This one I won't comment on too much, apart from to say that the bullying management culture and the bullying workers culture are usually linked, and not in a simple way...

I do have another suggestion though, how about, instead of a normal privatisation of the post office, we turn it into a worker owned collective (aka John Lewis)? Put responsibility for making the service a success and rewards from making the service a success into the hands of all staff?
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RDM said:
Unless of course Dave Ward isn't telling the truth? He isn't exactly unbiased in the affair after all.
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I believe that he made at least one VERY specific allegation in relation to a stance agreed on Tuesday night on which the uninvolved directors of Royal Mail reneged on Wednesday morning; it wouldn't be difficult for Royal Mail to disprove this if it weren't true; so far as I am aware, they haven't done so.

To be honest, I believe that the most damning criticism of Royal Mail is that they have consistently refused to take this dispute to arbitration by ACAS and to accept the ACAS findings; they must know that they are being unreasonable and would not arive at the conclusion they want if their case is judged impartially by an independent body. They are relying on might to overcome a fair deal.

Hopefully, however this eventually turns out, the Royal Mail senior management will be sacked for incompetence.
 
stockhausen said:
To be honest, I believe that the most damning criticism of Royal Mail is that they have consistently refused to take this dispute to arbitration by ACAS and to accept the ACAS findings; they must know that they are being unreasonable and would not arive at the conclusion they want if their case is judged impartially by an independent body. They are relying on might to overcome a fair deal.
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I'm unsure on this one, having spoken to a CWU rep about the postal service demands, the literature going to the workers contains the details of the proposals I've listed above, and while the proposals seem reasonable enough as stated, the CWU desired implementations are ludicrous and way beyond anything that even a compromise deal would make acceptable.

If I demanded £1m or I will block all access to your house (following a vote of local residents and popular support), and your position was that access to your house shouldn't be blocked at all because the demand for £1m is unreasonable, is it reasonable to go to arbitration and accept the findings which will probably be around the mid-point?

On the additional, I'd happily sack all of RM's senior management and all the striking workers, there are plenty of people willing to take the jobs (as the current temp recruitment shows). Fair is fair, both sides are handling the situation badly and inappropriately, so both sides should go.
 
Dolph said:
... the CWU desired implementations are ludicrous and way beyond anything that even a compromise deal would make acceptable.
...
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And that is sufficient reason for the Roytal Mail management to refuse to go to binding ACAS arbitration :confused:

I suspect that the truth is that the changes desired by Royal Mail go way beyond anything that even a compromise deal would make acceptable and they know it.


I think that you are being remarkably generous to the Royal Mail management and Mandelson; I suspect that they know / believe that they have the power and the public sympathy to force through these changes and eventually to flog off Royal Mail and are happy to ignore the longer term implications of destroying Royal Mail in the interests of short-term profit.
 
stockhausen said:
And that is sufficient reason for the Roytal Mail management to refuse to go to binding ACAS arbitration :confused:
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Well, given that the union has reneged on this compromise deal from 2007, why would they stick to a compromise deal this time if it doesn't go far enough?

I suspect that the truth is that the changes desired by Royal Mail go way beyond anything that even a compromise deal would make acceptable and they know it.
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Possibly, possibly not.

I think that you are being remarkably generous to the Royal Mail management and Mandelson; I suspect that they know / believe that they have the power and the public sympathy to force through these changes and eventually to flog off Royal Mail and are happy to ignore the longer term implications of destroying Royal Mail in the interests of short-term profit.
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I've said repeatedly that I'd happily sack the RM management (just not in isolation) and offered an alternative to straight privatisation that is both more generous to the workers and potentially solves many of the issues with poor productivity by making a better link between company earnings and employee earnings.

I'd even be happy not to make much at all off the RM sale, if the workers collective issue was offered, and would be prepared to contribute to the current (but not future) shortfall in the pensions fund (so would ensure all former workers and current workers previous contributions are taken into account and properly balanced)

I don't see how that is giving a lot of support to management, or being generous. The only area that I really agree with the management is that the CWU demands are unreasonable and unworkable, and that the CWU has completely lost focus on the purpose of Royal mail (serving customers in ways they want) and instead wants to make it into a jobs club. Management aren't much better, they are trying to tackle a funding crisis without thinking about what the customers in the modern day want, and not doing enough to reform the service to be successful. You can also add the government into the mix, because they haven't looked at whether the universal service guarantee needs to be kept, or whether there are alternative solutions that could be deployed. I know 90% of my mail is crap, and I would happily pay for delivery if that crap was removed, or I would happily walk to a central point within reasonable distance and collect my mail, again if the crap was removed.

The service needs ground up reform, not tinkering, to bring it up to the standards and needs of customers in the 21st century, and pretty much everyone is standing in the way of that.
 
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