Is a recycled/recyclable material a sustainable material?

[Jonny69]

Here's an interesting question to discuss: is a recycled/recyclable material a sustainable material?

I give you two examples:

First is recycled aluminium. Aluminium is readily recyclable but it's ultimately a finite resource. Say we lose a tiny amount of aluminium each time we recycle it, due to pollution then eventually it may run out. It'll take a long time and it's unlikely, but it could happen, so is that sustainable or not?

Second is recycled plastics. A recycled plastic is not normally as strong as the plastic it was recycled from. The recycling process usually breaks some polymer chains meaning there is only a finite number of times it can be recycled. After that it has to be disposed of and most plastics aren't biodegradable. However, it does burn so it can be incinerated for energy recovery. The flipside is it comes from oil which will run out, so until natural polymers are perfected... is that sustainable?

 

[semi-pro waster]

If it is a finite resource then I suppose the answer has to be no, it is not sustainable in any indefinite sense. Whether it will last long enough while we develop and move to alternatives is a slightly more interesting question to my mind and one I've not got a definite answer to.

It should be pointed out of course that if by recycling we are saving on energy and ensuring that we do have a source of material to re-use then arguably it remains worthwhile even if it is just delaying the inevitable for an indeterminate period.

 

[Jonny69]

It should be pointed out of course that if by recycling we are saving on energy and ensuring that we do have a source of material to re-use then arguably it remains worthwhile even if it is just delaying the inevitable for an indeterminate period.

Indeed, and in the case of aluminium this is strongly the case. The energy to recycle it is considerably lower than the energy to produce new aluminium from ore.

 

[kaiowas]

Technically they are not sustainable but then neither are biofuels, solar, wind or tidal energies as they are all dependant in one way or another on the energy which we get from the sun which won't last forever.

 

[Jonny69]

It's unlikely that the sun will burn out while we're still here though. We'll all be toast before that happens.

 

[YouBunt2]

no
/thread

 

[hood1971]

The recycling process needs energy which would make the process unsustainable.

 

[Glaucus]

The recycling process needs energy which would make the process unsustainable.

energy can not be created or destroyed. So energy is infinite.

However if an item is not 100% recyclable then it is not sustainable. However the chances are things like aluminium will only need a tiny amount top up in the process , making it last millions of times longer.

Only true sustainable things are things like managed forests for timber.

 

[RDM]

If it is a finite resource then I suppose the answer has to be no, it is not sustainable in any indefinite sense. Whether it will last long enough while we develop and move to alternatives is a slightly more interesting question to my mind and one I've not got a definite answer to.

There is however an awful lot of it and it is 100% recyclable. Not something we have to worry about running out of for a very long time indeed.

 

[platinum87]

First is recycled aluminium. Aluminium is readily recyclable but it's ultimately a finite resource. Say we lose a tiny amount of aluminium each time we recycle it, due to pollution then eventually it may run out. It'll take a long time and it's unlikely, but it could happen, so is that sustainable or not?

Everything is a finite resource if you expand the definition but aluminium is the most abundant metal on earth

 

[semi-pro waster]

There is however an awful lot of it and it is 100% recyclable. Not something we have to worry about running out of for a very long time indeed.

Aluminium? This is true but I was speaking in generalities, if something (anything) is a finite resource then it cannot be sustainable indefinitely. It may well be sustainable to beyond the point where humankind can utilise it (either because we've reached the point where the sun burns itself out and expands before the collapse or we've somehow found a way to destroy all of us - whichever comes sooner) but in theory on an infinite timeline with current usage and loss it would eventually run out.

Seriously?

Calling for the thread to end and repeating your call does not mean it will. If you don't want to read further responses then feel free to unsubscribe from the thread - alternatively if you feel the thread is problematic in some way you can always RTM it.

 

[RDM]

Aluminium? This is true but I was speaking in generalities, if something (anything) is a finite resource then it cannot be sustainable indefinitely. It may well be sustainable to beyond the point where humankind can utilise it (either because we've reached the point where the sun burns itself out and expands before the collapse or we've somehow found a way to destroy all of us - whichever comes sooner) but in theory on an infinite timeline with current usage and loss it would eventually run out.

Not entirely true due to it's 100% recyclable nature. The problem of course comes in the collection of waste aluminium to make sure you don't wasste any. The only way we could run out is if we needed to use all 100% of the aluminium in the earth (that we could extract).

 

[Glaucus]

Not entirely true due to it's 100% recyclable nature. .

Is it 100% though, I doubt it, processes usually always cause waste. even if it's a fraction..

alternatively if you feel YouBunt2 is problematic in some way you can always RTM it.

I have

 

[RDM]

Is it 100% though, I doubt it, processes usually always cause waste. even if it's a fraction..

As far as I am aware recycling aluminium doesn't damage it's structure in anyway and so it is theoretically 100% recyclabe. If the current technology actually does recycle it completely is another question but everything I have read seems to suggest its effeciency is already pretty high.

 

[Jonny69]

As far as I am aware recycling aluminium doesn't damage it's structure in anyway and so it is theoretically 100% recyclabe. If the current technology actually does recycle it completely is another question but everything I have read seems to suggest its effeciency is already pretty high.

I think in practice you'll always lose a bit through pollution from **** or other substances. For example steel is 100% recyclable but a small addition of copper will ruin it and it's very difficult, if not impossible, to get it out again. Once it's in the steel it becomes brittle and next to useless. One of the problems in recycling cars, because of copper in wires and radiators.

Aluminium wasn't necessarily a great example because there's so much of it we probably won't run out, but it is still a finite resource.

 

[slamyourself]

True, true, although it seems quite undoubtly clear and obvious to me that this thread should have ended, most probably at the point when it was cleverly pointed out


"/Thread"

 

[Burnsy2023]

This is why I still think we should have glass bottles that get refilled. Or reduce our packaging footprint.

Reuse > Recycling

 

[malfunkshun]

energy can not be created or destroyed. So energy is infinite.

Not strictly true, conservation of energy states that energy is converted but not lost. One form of energy is expended when it is converted to another, currently the resultant, converted energy may not be useful to us. As such useful energy is not sustainable or infinite......at the moment.

 

[uvarvu]

This is why I still think we should have glass bottles that get refilled. Or reduce our packaging footprint.

Reuse > Recycling

Agreed. Over in Cyprus most drinks are delivered in glass bottles that are reused rather than recycled. I simply don't understand why that doesn't happen here.
Some pubs have mixers delivered in the glass bottles but I think they throw them away or recycle rather than reuse.

 

[Jonny69]

I don't understand why we don't re-use bottles either, especially since we used to have an infrastructure in place over here with a financial incentive to make sure it happened. Having said that, I haven't done a LCA on drinks bottles so I can't say for certain if one is better over another.