Thats very interesting.
Vettel absolutely demolished Webber in qualifying: 14-2.
Only Alonso was more dominant, though the Renault team is seriously skewed against Alonso's team-mates. 15-1
Rosberg is also very dominant in qualifying: 13-3
Yas Marina Circuit - Abu Dhabi Prix 2009 - Race 17/17
- Thread starter Glaucus
- Start date
Thats very interesting.
Vettel absolutely demolished Webber in qualifying: 14-2.
Only Alonso was more dominant, though the Renault team is seriously skewed against Alonso's team-mates. 15-1
Rosberg is also very dominant in qualifying: 13-3
Thats why Button should take the challenge of a mclaren next year and Lewis team mate. The car has gone from a duffer to best car on the grid in less than half a season. Where as if Brawn give him a duff car for the first 4 or 5 races they will 'concentrate on next years car'.
The difference in depth and wealth between the two is still light years apart.
Also I can see no actual reason why Brawn are even looking to get rid of rubens. He's doing a very good job in the times when Jenson hasn't.
The difference in depth and wealth between the two is still light years apart.
Also I can see no actual reason why Brawn are even looking to get rid of rubens. He's doing a very good job in the times when Jenson hasn't.
Thats a very big challenge and could do irrepairable damage to Button's credibility as a leading F1 driver.
At BrawnGP, if he wants, he can have the whole team based around him, get outright No.1 status and get full preferential treatment. Considering this, I would say staying at BrawnGP is his best option.
For the paying public, Button to McLaren could be very exciting, though I'd much rather see Kimi at McLaren, simply because next season Hamilton will need a lot of support from his team-mate, when Ferrari, Massa and Alonso mount a serious challenge for both titles. Bearing this in mind, Hamilton will need a strong team-mate who can be counted on to bring in good points positions.
LOL. Thats what Honda used to do. Everytime they built a turkey, they would concentrate on next year's car, which would invariably also turn out to be a turkey.
Yep. Agreed 100%. As a No.2 driver, he is probably the best around.
Look at Rubens race pace - its usually attrocious compared to what Jenson can do with heavier fuel loads, yes Rubens usually starts better off but huge minus points as to how slow he is usually on Sundays
When was the last time Ross Brawn oversaw the design of a bad car - must be quite a few years ago? The other thing is that why will the Brawn car be anyother other than better - there arent any MASSIVE rule changes (apart from fuel cell size), and because of all the compromises made from the original Honda design to get the Merc unit fitted the 2010 Brawn should get even better (maybe not as dominant as the beginning of this year admittedly - but compared to where it is this weekend , and because we start back next year here also , 1st race will be a great direct comparison)
Of course McLaren will be up there too - and maybe ahead - but I dont see why the Woking team will automatically be ahead until we know more about next years cars from pre-season
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Associate
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Fuel Loads
01. Lewis Hamilton - 658,5 kg
02. Sebastian Vettel - 663,0 kg
03. Mark Webber - 660,0 kg
04. Rubens Barrichello - 655,0 kg
05. Jenson Button - 657,0 kg
06. Jarno Trulli - 661,0 kg
07. Robert Kubica - 654,5 kg
08. Nick Heidfeld - 664,0 kg
09. Nico Rosberg - 665,0 kg
10. Sebastien Buemi - 661,5 kg
11. Kimi Raikkonen - 690,5
12. Kamui Kobayashi - 694,3 kg
13. Heikki Kovalainen - 697,0 kg
14. Kazuki Nakajima - 704,0 kg
15. Jaime Alguersuari - 696,5 kg
16. Fernando Alonso - 708,3 kg
17. Vitantonio Liuzzi - 695,0 kg
18. Adrian Sutil - 696,0 kg
19. Romain Grosjean - 710,8 kg
20. Giancarlo Fisichella - 692,5 kg
01. Lewis Hamilton - 658,5 kg
02. Sebastian Vettel - 663,0 kg
03. Mark Webber - 660,0 kg
04. Rubens Barrichello - 655,0 kg
05. Jenson Button - 657,0 kg
06. Jarno Trulli - 661,0 kg
07. Robert Kubica - 654,5 kg
08. Nick Heidfeld - 664,0 kg
09. Nico Rosberg - 665,0 kg
10. Sebastien Buemi - 661,5 kg
11. Kimi Raikkonen - 690,5
12. Kamui Kobayashi - 694,3 kg
13. Heikki Kovalainen - 697,0 kg
14. Kazuki Nakajima - 704,0 kg
15. Jaime Alguersuari - 696,5 kg
16. Fernando Alonso - 708,3 kg
17. Vitantonio Liuzzi - 695,0 kg
18. Adrian Sutil - 696,0 kg
19. Romain Grosjean - 710,8 kg
20. Giancarlo Fisichella - 692,5 kg
Fuel Weights
Code:
[b]Grid Name Weight Fuel (kg) First stint (laps)[/b]
1 Lewis Hamilton 658.5 53.5 18
2 Sebastian Vettel 663 58 20
3 Mark Webber 660 55 19
4 Rubens Barrichello 655 50 17
5 Jenson Button 657 52 18
6 Jarno Trulli 661 56 19
7 Robert Kubica 654.5 49.5 17
8 Nick Heidfeld 664 59 20
9 Nico Rosberg 665 60 21
10 Sebastien Buemi 661.5 56.5 19
11 Kimi Raikkonn 692 87 31
12 Kamui Kobayashi 694.3 89.3 32
13 Heikki Kovalainen 697 92 33
14 Kazuki Nakajima 704 99 35
15 Jaime Alguersuari 696.5 91.5 32
16 Fernando Alonso 708.3 103.3 37
17 Vitantonio Liuzzi 695 90 32
18 Adrian Sutil 696 91 32
19 Romain Grosjean 710.8 105.8 38
20 Giancarlo Fisichella 692.5 87.5 31He still qualifies well and in the 2nd half of the season has generally finished ahead of Button. As No.2 driver, I can't see what more your can ask for.
Remember, the aim of the race weekend is to finish the race as close to the front as possible. There is no point in being the fastest race driver, when you are worst qualifer. Qualifying is integral to achieving the best position, in the final race standings.
No, thats a very limited view indeed.
If you know the driver who qualified better is going in the race slower than your other driver race after race, you know he isnt worth keeping (I mean look at his performance last week before the puncture, there is NO excuse for being so slow in comparison to Button starting much further back which SHOULD in comparison make Button slower not faster
Look at quali today - a lap LESS fuel and with JB having huge vibration in q3 and Rubens is only JUST marginally ahead, tale of his season
This could be a good race then. Vettel has the advantage.
Hamilton will dominate him though IMO
No question
Hamilton for the win
Vettel 2nd
and between Button and Webber for 3rd (without failures/crashes to account for)
So even though, in the 2nd half of the season, Barrichello has brought in the majority of the points, he has been apparently, a much lesser driver than Button? (You wont get any argument from me about the first half - Button was much better than Barrichello).
By your reckoning Button is the best thing sinced sliced bread. Lets assume this is true. Barrichello has outscored Button in the 2nd half of the season. What does that tell you?
If I want to hire a driver, I'm not looking for someone who will qualify poorly and then spend the rest of the race playing catchup. I am after the driver who will score points. Thats the bottom line. Points.
Ultimately, its points that win you prizes. Nothing else matters.
Barrichello has done a good job (not as good Button) and would serve very well as a No.2 driver.
There might be a problem though, if BrawnGP give Button No.1 status, with full preferential treatment. Would Barrichello be happy to be No.2? This could well be the reason why BrawnGP want rid of him.
By your reckoning Button is the best thing sinced sliced bread. Lets assume this is true. Barrichello has outscored Button in the 2nd half of the season. What does that tell you?
If I want to hire a driver, I'm not looking for someone who will qualify poorly and then spend the rest of the race playing catchup. I am after the driver who will score points. Thats the bottom line. Points.
Ultimately, its points that win you prizes. Nothing else matters.
Barrichello has done a good job (not as good Button) and would serve very well as a No.2 driver.
There might be a problem though, if BrawnGP give Button No.1 status, with full preferential treatment. Would Barrichello be happy to be No.2? This could well be the reason why BrawnGP want rid of him.
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Soldato
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why is there no qualifying replay?
Edit: found it on iplayer, but there is no link from the bbc f1 site and their search facility is a disgrace.
Edit: found it on iplayer, but there is no link from the bbc f1 site and their search facility is a disgrace.
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Actually, if you divide the season so far in two (8 races in each half for the mathematically challenged) - in the second half of the season, Jenson and Rubens have each beaten the other to the flag 4 times. So if you're going to say that Rubens "has generally finished ahead of Button" you might want to check on your stats first....
There's also no point throwing the car off the road trying to be the fastest in every single session when you don't need to win every race. And Jenson Button, the 2009 Formula One World Champion, didn't need to win every race. He just needed to do enough to maintain his lead after the BGP001 finished the bulk of its development cycle and all the other teams started catching up to it. The fact that he won the title with a race to spare suggests that he had enough in hand.
It would have been nice to see him at the pointy end of things at every single race. But even the much vaunted Schumacher had a 'mare on the way to his 2003 title, and Alonso's second half of 2006 wasn't exactly stellar. Neither was the way Mansell and Prost closed out their respective dominant seasons in '92-'93. Had his first and second halves of the year been reversed, no-one would be questioning his season at all. Except you, no doubt. I suspect you'd have been wittering on about how he wasn't a deserving champion because he hadn't led from the get-go....
I wonder what you'd make of the 1984 season sunama. Pretty much all year, Alain Prost out-qualified Niki Lauda. In fact, Lauda never got pole all year. Niki knew he didn't have the raw speed to take on Prost, but he had something equally as useful - guile. Prost concentrated on qualifying up at the pointy end, Lauda concentrated on race setup and strategy. The end result was Lauda racking up points, and managing to grab the title.
So to return to a previous point of yours:
There's also no point in beating your team mate to the punch in qualifying if you can't do enough in the races
There was when I watched it earlier?
In 1984, if you had the fastest car in field and qualifed last, you could still finish up on the podium. This is because it was (relatively easy) to overtake a slower car. In 2009, we have a situation, where unless you are 1-2s faster than the car in front, you can barely keep in touch with the car in front, due to the "dirty air".
In 1984, you could qualify badly, set your car up for heavy fuel loads and then make a killing in the race. In 2009, you simply cannot do this as you will eventually get stuck behind Trulli (or similar), who will make you lose 2s/lap, to the leaders.
There's also no point in beating your team mate to the punch in qualifying if you can't do enough in the races
To summarise, in 2009, qualifying is VERY important, as Button and Barrichello have shown, where Button is slightly faster in the race, while Barrichello is slightly faster in qualifying, yet Barrichello outscores Button.