David Cameron to tell voters: no vote on Lisbon Treaty

mattheman said:
yay great another party that lied.
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How has he lied? In several interviews he said that if the treaty had not been ratified by the general election - going on the assumption that the Conservatives were back in power - he would hold a referendum.

What do you want him to do? Hold a coup?

What a stupid article, and what a stupid thread.
 
conservatives just lost a vote here. they knew labour would hold on to power as long as possible to see it in, they knew they wouldn't have a say on it so it's an easy thing to say 'we'll let you decide' to earn peoples votes when in reality they know they don't have the option.
 
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The important aspect is not in the detail of what he exactly said, but what the impact will be - he laid out in a 'Sun-style' matey column, signed with a flourish that there would be a vote.

Your average Sun reader, I wager, will not be particularly swayed by linguistic acrobatics about ratification, after all I imagine most viewed the 'referendum' on the treaty as a 'referendum' on being in Europe full stop - which I suspect is what they 'want' still. Unfortunately, I doubt Cameron or the Conservatives have any desire to be the government in power that attempts to fully remove the UK from the EU, particularly at a time like this.

UL Cameron, you just got played :p
 
vincent1989 said:
see my edit.
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given that the Czechs were against it it seemed likely at the time it would not have gone ahead by then.

But surely based on your edit

they knew labour would hold on to power as long as possible to see it in, they knew they wouldn't have a say on it so it's an easy thing to say 'we'll let you decide' to earn peoples votes when in reality they know they don't have the option.
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why have they only lost your vote now, you had this information from the instant he made this promise, why didn't they lose it then?
 
Tefal said:
given that the Czechs were against it it seemed likely at the time it would not have gone ahead by then.

But surely based on your edit




why have they only lost your vote now, you had this information from the instant he made this promise, why didn't they lose it then?
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always good to hope isn't it. benefit of hindsight as well.
 
I am really struggling to see what the point of a vote once it has been ratified would be? Do we honestly want millions wasted on a pointless referendum?
 
RDM said:
I am really struggling to see what the point of a vote once it has been ratified would be? Do we honestly want millions wasted on a pointless referendum?
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Arguably the referendum on the treaty would be pointless regardless, he promised a referendum on the treaty not EU membership, in effect so what if the Lisbon treaty in that form got rejected? It wouldn't satisfy the Eurosceptics that want full withdrawal, nor would it particularly knock-back the Europhiles as it wouldn't be a public mandate for withdrawal in any event.
 
Tefal said:
well if you read it, it's actually because once the Czechs ratify it it would be EU law and the only way we could vote no would be to leave the EU.

The conservatives had hoped that labour would have been out of power before the Czechs had made thier desion so they could choose not to ratify it (assuming they got in).


but it looks like they won't be in power so they would be unable to change it once they got in as labour would have already signed up to it.


So there would be no treaty to vote one.



But don't let that stop you twisting it and counting on nobody reading the article ;)
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exactly - once its law it becomes very tricky.
 
Rich_L said:
Arguably the referendum on the treaty would be pointless regardless, he promised a referendum on the treaty not EU membership, in effect so what if the Lisbon treaty in that form got rejected?
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Hasn't the general opposition to the Lisbon Treaty got to do with it setting up the mechanisms of statehood and much more majority voting on more issues? Effectively it removes more decisions to Brussels.
 
Much as I despise Lord Snooty and his Tory chums, I really would rather that he not spend time or money on a purely academic referendum on something about which he can do absolutely nothing. I have no doubt that he really will tell lies about very many things between now and the election and that he will fail to deliver on many of his promises.

Now then, you lot down in London, how is Boris doing with getting rid of "bendy buses" and improving public transport? ;)
 
Well there is now another party tied by the hands of Labours ****-up. The conservatives, although I have issues with them, where probably the only party you could place realistic hope in to return this country into a democracy and allow the british people the power to vote over such things as the EU. Incredible to think we have basically handing control of our lives to non-voted, power-hungry, corrupted bureaucrats in Europe. Its unbelievable really.

As this becomes more popular news, I suspect the tories will lose many votes. Like I said, they where the most realistic chance of getting out of the EU because they would give us the choice. I suspect more people will vote for UKIP and BNP now. Its such a sad state of affairs in British politics when the only options available that says "No" to this EU joke, will never be given a chance to act.

Sad times really.
 
Tefal said:
please tell me how he can vote on it if it's already been approved by labour?

Did you even read the article, or just the horribly twisted half truth mattheman presented and took his word for it?

He's not well known for his honesty ;)
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I meant if he allowed us a vote since his policies seem to be whatever is popular in the media rather than having any substance.

Even if signed into EU law we should've at least had the option to opt-out, especially as the Tories are wanting to renegotiate the treaty when they get into power.
 
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