Military cuts going to far... Navy losing carrier :(

Well fair enough the guy made a silly comment with the usual French naming but you're not faring better with stringing together 2 articles with different circumstances. The French ship was a frigate which wasn't dealing with a hostage situation, a slight show of power and the job is done.

The British ship on the other hand had was dealing with hostages, so pointing the guns from the ship wasn't going to work here. So the only way was to send a boarding party and that's when technology doesn't really matter and the playing field is levelled. The scenario would probably play out with 2 British Citizens dead.

The Somalis needed those hostages alive for a ransom. They couldn't afford to kill them. (In fact, have they ever killed hostages?) The French have rescued hostages from Somali pirates in the past, so it can be done. To quote your own words: "A slight show of power and the job is done."

We also coming to another problem and the fact that the ship involved wasn't exactly what you call a warship but a fleet tanker designed to resupply other ships at sea. It's also an RFA ship crewed by RFA staff and some RN staff and I don't mean this in a disrespectful way but none of them are marines. So while the general public Joe may see is as a big mean ship scared of attacking a few guys with rifles, what this is really is, is a good call because the ship just wasn't equipped to deal with the situation without it turning nasty.

That is not the explanation that was given. They did not deny that they had the firepower and capacity to intervene; they simply said that they judged it to be too risky.

As for the last point, you are right the Royal Marines should've defiantly fired at the 6 Iranian ships with the small arms from their RH inflatable boats :p. HMS Cornwall wasn't standing around next to them, the marines were inspecting a ship in waters too shallow for the warship to enter. By the time anyone realised what happened the British personnel were on Iranian soil.

They didn't need to fire. They should have used their superior speed and manouverability to outrun the boats and return to HMS Cornwall. Instead they just gave up and spent the next 12 days spilling their guts to Iran. Royal Marines? Pffft. Cheese eating surrender monkeys.

This is how my countrymen deal with dodgy Iranians:

CANBERRA (Reuters) - Australian navy sailors used "colourful language" and aggressive tactics to repel five Iranian gunboats in an incident prior to the capture of 15 British sailors in March, Australian defence officials said on Friday.

Five Iranian Revolutionary Guard gunboats surrounded an Australian boarding party in the Gulf during a routine stop-and-search of the cargo boat MV Sham in December 2004.

"Colourful language was the word. As Australians we might well imagine what (language) was there, but the important thing to note was that it worked," Royal Australian Navy Commodore Steve Gilmore told reporters.

The Australians were boarding the vessel from the missile frigate HMAS Adelaide, on patrol with U.S.-led coalition forces after the Iraq war, when the incident occurred.

The Australian commander ordered his sailors back onto the cargo vessel and into defensive weapons positions in a four-hour confrontation from which the Iranians eventually backed away. No shots were fired, Gilmore said.

British media reports have questioned why lessons were not learned from the Australian incident.​

(Source).

Gilmore goes on to say that this incident wasn't identical to the British one, but the only real difference is that the Iranians didn't seem intent on capturing the Australian troops. In every other respect, it was identical: military personnel on a few inflatables, caught searching a cargo vessel and subsequently surrounded by Iranian gunboats. They were outnumbered and outgunned, as was their support vessel. But what a difference in the outcome!
 
The Somalis needed those hostages alive for a ransom. They couldn't afford to kill them. (In fact, have they ever killed hostages?) The French have rescued hostages from Somali pirates in the past, so it can be done. To quote your own words: "A slight show of power and the job is done."



That is not the explanation that was given. They did not deny that they had the firepower and capacity to intervene; they simply said that they judged it to be too risky.



They didn't need to fire. They should have used their superior speed and manouverability to outrun the boats and return to HMS Cornwall. Instead they just gave up and spent the next 12 days spilling their guts to Iran. Royal Marines? Pffft. Cheese eating surrender monkeys.

This is how my countrymen deal with dodgy Iranians:

CANBERRA (Reuters) - Australian navy sailors used "colourful language" and aggressive tactics to repel five Iranian gunboats in an incident prior to the capture of 15 British sailors in March, Australian defence officials said on Friday.

Five Iranian Revolutionary Guard gunboats surrounded an Australian boarding party in the Gulf during a routine stop-and-search of the cargo boat MV Sham in December 2004.

"Colourful language was the word. As Australians we might well imagine what (language) was there, but the important thing to note was that it worked," Royal Australian Navy Commodore Steve Gilmore told reporters.

The Australians were boarding the vessel from the missile frigate HMAS Adelaide, on patrol with U.S.-led coalition forces after the Iraq war, when the incident occurred.

The Australian commander ordered his sailors back onto the cargo vessel and into defensive weapons positions in a four-hour confrontation from which the Iranians eventually backed away. No shots were fired, Gilmore said.

British media reports have questioned why lessons were not learned from the Australian incident.​

(Source).

Gilmore goes on to say that this incident wasn't identical to the British one, but the only real difference is that the Iranians didn't seem intent on capturing the Australian troops. In every other respect, it was identical: military personnel on a few inflatables, caught searching a cargo vessel and subsequently surrounded by Iranian gunboats. They were outnumbered and outgunned, as was their support vessel. But what a difference in the outcome!
Just a shame it wasn't an Israeli vessel that the Iranian's sailed on up to with all the aggression in the world, the whole thing would be over now.
 
The Somalis needed those hostages alive for a ransom. They couldn't afford to kill them. (In fact, have they ever killed hostages?) The French have rescued hostages from Somali pirates in the past, so it can be done. To quote your own words: "A slight show of power and the job is done."

Well that's true for the majority of hostages situation, where it is very unlikely that the hostages will be hurt but authorities always place on the safe side.

That is not the explanation that was given. They did not deny that they had the firepower and capacity to intervene; they simply said that they judged it to be too risky.

Well no that wasn't the explanation, that's just what I concluded from what I read about the incident and information I found regarding the ship. I'm sure they had personnel trained for the situation but point I was getting at was that there are ships in the navy that a far better equipped and trained for such situations.

They didn't need to fire. They should have used their superior speed and manouverability to outrun the boats and return to HMS Cornwall. Instead they just gave up and spent the next 12 days spilling their guts to Iran. Royal Marines? Pffft. Cheese eating surrender monkeys.

None of us here can really comment on them simply outrunning the boats, as we don't know the exact circumstances on the ground. Which goes back to the quote from the article on the Australian incident:

"It's very difficult to predict the (British) outcome should have been the same as the Australian outcome because it wasn't the same circumstances," he said.

As for the actual article I never heard of it, but reading it all I got to say is certainly fair play to the Australians. Surely though it is unfair for anyone here to comment since none of us know the specifics of either incidents.
 
OP if it does happen then yes a set back in planning terms but looking on a global scale:

AC in service today:
Brazil (1)
France (1)
India (1)
Italy (2)
Japan (1)
Russia (1)
Spain (1)
Thailand (1)
United Kingdom (2)
United States (11)

2 AC still aint bad going :)
 
OP if it does happen then yes a set back in planning terms but looking on a global scale:

AC in service today:
Brazil (1)
France (1)
India (1)
Italy (2)
Japan (1)
Russia (1)
Spain (1)
Thailand (1)
United Kingdom (2)
United States (11)
2 AC still aint bad going :)

I doubt thats accurate if france only has one I doubt they would let us borrow it.

EDIT: seems it is. Im confused now.
 
I doubt thats accurate if france only has one I doubt they would let us borrow it.

EDIT: seems it is. Im confused now.

Probably a funding thing where we agree both carriers will not be in dock at the same time and we can use the others carrier if necessary. Obviously some dodgy timeshare salesman managed to get a mahoosive bonus out of that deal.
 
Or maybe, because we're NATO forces we all work from the same operaing bases so I dont see any real issue with the UK landing their jets on a French AC.
 
Or maybe, because we're NATO forces we all work from the same operaing bases so I dont see any real issue with the UK landing their jets on a French AC.

The way that most other NATO countries are going out of their way to offer troops in Afganistan (not), I'd hate to rely on them. Whatever peoples support of that war is (and I'm not a great fan), it seems fairly clear that some allies are to be relied upon less than others.
 
The way that most other NATO countries are going out of their way to offer troops in Afganistan (not), I'd hate to rely on them. Whatever peoples support of that war is (and I'm not a great fan), it seems fairly clear that some allies are to be relied upon less than others.

Dunno, I've seen plenty of French uniforms here in Afghanistan.
 
Dunno, I've seen plenty of French uniforms here in Afghanistan.

Fair enough. I'll admit I have no real world experience of it and am just going by stories I have heard and read (including books, not just newspapers).

I defer to your superior knowledge :)
 
USA has 11 wow, China has zero, just shows you the reason why the US is in debt and China isnt, they look after their own people.
 
Rest of the world has been laughing at us for years, as were a ******* joke, im ashamed to be british me.

really ?, you dont deserve to be a british citizen then... can you leave ?

seriously it's attitudes like this that spoil this country for everyone, im guessing your about 16 though and probably steal cars for a living ;)


sorry for sounding harsh, but i dont think anyone should be saying they are ashamed to be british... you really have no reason to be.
 
OP if it does happen then yes a set back in planning terms but looking on a global scale:

AC in service today:
Brazil (1)
France (1)
India (1)
Italy (2)
Japan (1)
Russia (1)
Spain (1)
Thailand (1)
United Kingdom (2)
United States (11)

2 AC still aint bad going :)

I believe our 2 carriers are 10 years past when they should have been retired, plus the fact that they are not really carriers but through deck cruisers

The new carriers each have several times the capability of the old carriers combined

Air power is everything, which is why USA maintains so many..

note: look up the thai carrier, it's abit of a joke


I know several here have said Daily Fail, can someone quote some source that we are getting two fully operational AIRCRAFT carriers ?...would be great news
 
Haha, some cracking posts here...

Firstly, yes the French have rescued hostages.. but I seriously doubt they launched the hostage rescue from a fleet auxillary ship.... Its just not comparable.

Secondly... Even if one of the carriers doesnt have a compliment of planes it can still be an aircraft carrier.. look at HMS Ocean, thats an aircraft carrier.

Thirdly, the HMS Cornwall incident. trying to outrun armed vessels in a RIB... not really a wise one is it, and there was only 8 marines, its not like they could do anything. The others were sailors... hardly elite fighting unit is it.
 
brown is outrageous he has ruined this countries military with his years as chancellor and PM

Can't wait until the buffon has gone completely incompetent
 
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