That's not always possible, add to that the extra cost some companies add to your bill if you don't pay by DD makes it harder for some people.
BT charge something like £4.50 extra if you don't pay by DD.
Banks win Supreme Court case on overdraft charges
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That's not always possible, add to that the extra cost some companies add to your bill if you don't pay by DD makes it harder for some people.
BT charge something like £4.50 extra if you don't pay by DD.
I've said the charges should be lower...
The direct debit system involves you agreeing that you'll make sure the money is in your account, if you don't you will get charged. "oh, but I had money in this other account, I just forgot to transfer it" isn't a reason for not having the charges, it's a reason for you to pay more attention to your own finances and ensure you have enough of YOUR money in YOUR account for the direct debit YOU set up for a service YOU'RE receiving.
1) It's not a fine, it's a charge. They're different things.
2) You have no idea what it costs the bank to issue the charge. You can make no judgement as to what the markup might be.
3) If you go into a pub and spend £2 on a pint of coke, the raw cost to the pub is closer to 2p. Is that justified?
As I've said repeatedly, there's a sure-fire way of never getting any charges on your bank account. Pay for stuff in shops with cash, and pay your bills at the post office.
So you want the convenience of DD, but not the cost if you screw it up? If you can't afford the extra for non-DD payments, and you can't afford the DD charge if you can't cover teh DD, then you can't afford the service. People need to stop assuming they're entitled to Sky, even if they can't afford it.
BT bill quarterly and I believe their cheapest rate is £30 per quarter. So even £4.50 isn't a huge premium on top of this.
And I don't know of a single shop that doesn't take cash, or a single service where they only let you pay by DD.
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The issue still is the charge, plus these "agreements" aren't made in the way you seem to feel they are.
When I signed up for Sky TV I didn't have any sort of DD agreement, I just gave them my account details, I received no DD guarantee, nothing to sign, nothing with "agreeing that you'll make sure the money is in your account".
In fact, everything I've set up with a DD hasn't had such agreements either.
It's not a reason to pay more attention, it's a reason for the banks to make more money.
1) It's a fine
2) And you do? I don't know if it's 1p or £1, what I do know is that it's not £30
3) A failed DD isn't anything like buying a product with a mark up, I don't see your point?
And have to reflect the actual cost of the breach of the contract, you are not supposed to profit by these charges.
It's not a huge "Premium" but it's still more money for no real reason other than to get you on the DD system.
Over 10% isn't really fair to elect to not pay by DD.
Paying in cash is generally fine, however it doesnt always work out, things like a weekly/monthly shop where you might draw £150 out of the cash point and then spend £153 on the shopping (extreme i know) the card resolves this problem
Also getting charged more per bill payment per month (up to £3 per bill with some providers) doesnt bode well for cash payers, just imagine if you payed by cheque for all your utilities and contract mobile phone every month how much it could potentially cost you (5 x £2 = £10.00 per month x 12 = £120 per year penalty just to pay with cash/cheque)
With regards to contacting the banks regarding their circumstances then this is something i can speak about with a bit of authority....a while ago we went through a bad patch financially, we contacted our bank (barclays at the time) and told them about it, did they offer to ease our financial burden...hell no they didnt help with anything.
We got ourselves out of that rut with some quite drastic measures, banks arent interested until they are in a position where they arent going to see any kind of return financially.....then they step in and offer assistances and often its too late.
But thats getting away from the original point, the bank charges are extortionate, they need to be in place but not such ridiculous amounts.
Exactly! Therefore, it's a fine.
It's punitive, they want you to feel it as a punishment therefore it's a fine rather than a charge.
For example, if you break something in a shop, they shop can't charge you the price they sell it at, they have to charge you their "at cost" price, they can't profit from it.
Except it's not. A private company isn't allowed to fine an individual. You should look it up sometime.
My point is that I don't care. Personally, I'd be curious to see if they started charging £1k a time - see how many people get charged then.
You seem to be arguing very specifically around DD charges, rather than general bank charges. My understanding came from the fact that a charge for a failed DD comes from you paying it and then the bank charging you for an unarranged overdraft. Is this not the case?
There's no conspiracy to get you onto the DD system, DDs are cheaper for the service providers to process, and they pass that saving onto the customer. Put another way, it costs British Gas (or BT, or whoever) more money to accept my payment to them by cash, or cheque. So they charge me for that. That seems entirely reasonabe.
surely if all these charges are so unfairly high, so that the banks could actually charge less but are just being greedy, and they cause such a problem to customers, why don't some of the banks reduce the charges and get loads more customers
actually I just got an email from natwest this morning and it looks like they are reducing their charges a bit.
actually I just got an email from natwest this morning and it looks like they are reducing their charges a bit.
In fact, I'm sure some of them actually wish not to help as you're more likely to get bank fines therefore more profit for them.
Remember that we have just entered an age of austerity - the days of easy credit are gone. This means you should be looking to reduce your overdraft, credit card etc, and it also means you should be looking to maintain a cash buffer for unexpected expenses such as vehicle repairs.
Except failed DD's don't go through (in my experience) if you do not have the cash in your bank, they get returned, and you then get a charge from the bank for this and then a charge from the company taking the payment.
This is based on years of experience working in a CPW store and people coming in moaning about bank charges/CPW charges demanding we do something about it. :/
That's not the case, I've had my bank try to con me in to believing this to be true, but on closer inspection it was a lie and when I asked them why they were lying about it, they promptly refunded me.
They claimed to have paid a DD which took me into an unarranged overdraft, but if they had, I would have had the amount of the DD also added to the fine.
I don't think it's a conspiracy, merely that they increase the fee to make people set up DDs instead.
There's no conspiracy there, you even said it yourself, they're easier for the companies.
The consumer has a choice. Pay a little extra and do the payment themselves, or use a bank service (DD) and get a discount, but understand that there are costs involved if you can't fund the DD. If you want your cake and eat it too, then that's fine, but lets acknowledge that this is what the minority of people are demanding.
If I have £150 for the shopping and the till rings up £153, I put £3 worth of stuff back.
But you have a choice. You can either pay with cash and pay a bit extra, or you can take a discount with DD. People should be aware that if they take the cheaper option, then there should be consequences for not having the funds to cover it.
I've only had 1 bank charge, switched banks, cancelled all direct debits but one company neglected to do so. Ok it was annoying but not the end of the world, some people debating here are incredibly narrow minded self righteous buggers. Whilst it is good that those of us can avoid those charges they are hardly a true reflection of the value to the bank and it's not fair that our banking is subsidiesed by those who cannot sort themselves out.
To the chap about a car, I run a car that costs next to nothing as it is required! Fortunatly I work in my home town but should I switch jobs I would have to look outside of this city. Public transport to get you there? Don't make me laugh the bus service is awful!
To the chap about a car, I run a car that costs next to nothing as it is required! Fortunatly I work in my home town but should I switch jobs I would have to look outside of this city. Public transport to get you there? Don't make me laugh the bus service is awful!