Switzerland appears to have backed minaret ban

[Glaucus]

This is the last I'll say on the issue as we're circling, but: it is justifiable in Switzerland, perfectly, as it is what the Swiss want. End of.

But that means nothing other than they did it in a legal way. Not whether it's right or wrong. or any sensible discussion.

 

[meghatronic]

But that means nothing other than they did it in a legal way. Not whether it's right or wrong. or any sensible discussion.

Depends what you're using as your definitions of right/wrong. I am using right as legal and what the people want. Morals don't come into it.

 

[sigma]

This is the last I'll say on the issue as we're circling, but: it is justifiable in Switzerland, perfectly, as it is what the Swiss want. End of.

Most people want to be millionaires, does that mean the government should give everybody a million pounds?

Most people want no tax on petrol, is that going to happen?

 

[Glaucus]

Depends what you're using as your definitions of right/wrong. I am using right as legal and what the people want. Morals don't come into it.

No one has said it's illegal but it is wrong and it is prejudice. Morals certainly come into it, after all this is a discussion.

 

[Ivan Drago]

the government should not allow it. Just because they voted that way does not change the fact they are narrow minded prejudice views.

Ah, the liberal left dictators at it again. It's quite clear you don't want democracy if people don't agree with your indoctrinations.

Please go and send your mother/girlfriend/daughter to life in an Islamic country and tell us about the GREATNESS of Islamic culture and how it improves upon Western culture. Just when we are getting rid of one desert dogma (Christianity), some people want to replace it with another against people of logic and reason.

I'm sure that you are well used to winning arguments by calling people 'narrow-minded' and 'predjudiced' without having any solid logic to back up your name calling but this won't wash for much longer. People like you will be made to engage in logical debate and your ideology will cave in.

 

[Glaucus]

Ah, the liberal left dictators at it again. It's quite clear you don't want democracy if people don't agree with your indoctrinations.

None of that is a dictator.

Please go and send your mother/girlfriend/daughter to life in an Islamic country and tell us about the GREATNESS of Islamic culture and how it improves upon Western culture. Just when we are getting rid of one desert dogma (Christianity), some people want to replace it with another against people of logic and reason.

getting rid of christianity? think again.

Where did I say Islam countries were great? what one country does has no reflection on us or what we should do.

I'm sure that you are well used to winning arguments by calling people 'narrow-minded' and 'predjudiced' without having any solid logic to back up your name calling but this won't wash for much longer. People like you will be made to engage in logical debate and your ideology will cave in.

I'm not actually. and where's the lack of evidence. As I keep saying their is no reason for a carpet ban other than prejudice. If you think that is wrong. State some logical reasons. Oh wait no one can.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Ah, the liberal left dictators at it again. It's quite clear you don't want democracy if people don't agree with your indoctrinations.

Since when did democracy become the grand ideal? Without speaking for AH, maybe he'd prefer an anarchy?

Please go and send your mother/girlfriend/daughter to life in an Islamic country and tell us about the GREATNESS of Islamic culture and how it improves upon Western culture.

That has nothing to do with anything.

Just when we are getting rid of one desert dogma (Christianity), some people want to replace it with another against people of logic and reason.

Ah, so you're against all religions? OK. Which other belief system does that include?

I'm sure that you are well used to winning arguments by calling people 'narrow-minded' and 'predjudiced' without having any solid logic to back up your name calling but this won't wash for much longer. People like you will be made to engage in logical debate and your ideology will cave in.

You know, the way you say that doesn't make it sound very democratic.

 

[Natima]

I was gonna say, we are FAR from getting rid of christianity.
And to be honest, this news made me quite happy, not becuase I have any problem with muslims, or think they are extremists, which is oddly what seems to be everyones motivation for things like this.
But becuase I'm fed of of religious bullcrap being rubbed in my face and being told I'll burn for eternity becuase I have a greater understanding of the natural processes by which we formed.

I'd glady support any kind of act that intends to cut down on religion as a whole, but on the condition that it does so through education.

 

[Glaucus]

But becuase I'm fed of of religious bullcrap being rubbed in my face and being told I'll burn for eternity becuase I have a greater understanding of the natural processes by which we formed.
.

When does this ever happen...

 

[daz]

tell us about the GREATNESS of Islamic culture and how it improves upon Western culture.

The concept of universities came from islamic culture, amongst many other things.

Islam is no better or worse than other religions. People are what do right or wrong, not religions.

 

[Ivan Drago]

None of that is a dictator.

You are attempting to regulate freedom of speech and political action = dictator.

Where did I say Islam countries were great? what one country does has no reflection on us or what we should do.

I asked you what benefits Islamic culture could bring to Europe - stuck for answers??

As I keep saying their is no reason for a carpet ban other than prejudice. If you think that is wrong. State some logical reasons. Oh wait no one can.

The indigenous population have chosen the way they want to live. Are they supposed to accept alien values being imposed upon them?

By the way you keep confusing 'their/there' and 'to/too'. Please sort this out.

 

[manoz]

Lame, though minarets aren't all that important to modern mosques, now that we have electronic comms systems. I wonder if they'll ban campaniles? Banning minarets is a real sign that the swiss are blatantly worried about something which is great imo.

 

[Glaucus]

You are attempting to regulate freedom of speech and political action = dictator.

not at all.

Even though there is no specific, universally accepted definition of 'democracy',[3] there are two principles that any definition of democracy includes, equality and freedom.[4][dubious – discuss] These principles are reflected by all citizens being equal before the law, and having equal access to power.[5] A third common principle, though less measurable, is that all citizens are promised certain legitimized freedoms and liberties, which are generally protected by a constitution.[6][7]

The "majority rule" is often described as a characteristic feature of democracy, but without responsible government or constitutional protections of individual liberties from democratic power it is possible for dissenting individuals to be oppressed by the "tyranny of the majority". An essential process in representative democracies is competitive elections, that are fair both substantively[13] and procedurally.[14] Furthermore, freedom of political expression, freedom of speech and freedom of the press are essential so that citizens are informed and able to vote in their personal interests.[15][16]

This ban goes against several of the main democracy principles. Democracy has never been about popular vote, nor should it be. Perhaps you should read up on what democracy is.

I asked you what benefits Islamic culture could bring to Europe - stuck for answers??

No, I said it is irrelevant. But just to awnser google top 20 Islam inventions. they include many things. What do French people bring to the UK?

The indigenous population have chosen the way they want to live. Are they supposed to accept alien values being imposed upon them?

What values are being forced on them. Is shia law in place? do minarets change their way of life?

 

[Ivan Drago]

Since when did democracy become the grand ideal? Without speaking for AH, maybe he'd prefer an anarchy?

He is obviosuly a champion of 'liberal democracy' but denounces anyone who doesn't agree with him. I was simply trying to highlight his hypocrisy.

You know, the way you say that doesn't make it sound very democratic.

Requiring people to have some logic to back up their baseless political slogans?

The concept of universities came from islamic culture, amongst many other things.

The Greek institutions of learning which prmoted free thought and democracy surpassed any Islamic schools by centuries.

What do you think was taught in Islamic universities? Science? Logic?

Islam is no better or worse than other religions. People are what do right or wrong, not religions.

Not all true. Issues such as the treatment of women are just different under different religions due to their fundamental religious texts. There's no getting away from that.

 

[Pudney]

You are attempting to regulate freedom of speech and political action = dictator.

Hang on, you lambast someone for trying to prevent freedom of speech then attach his right to have his say on the matter? Does irony mean anything to you?

I asked you what benefits Islamic culture could bring to Europe - stuck for answers??

Well, in fairness, their architecture can be pretty stunning, and the arts are part of culture, so that's one thing.

The indigenous population have chosen the way they want to live. Are they supposed to accept alien values being imposed upon them?

By the way you keep confusing 'their/there' and 'to/too'. Please sort this out.

Seriously, a minaret isn't an "alien value" and it's ludicrous to suggest otherwise. The fact is the Swiss are incredibly xenophobic, as it would seem are you. The world would be a far worse place if there were more people like you. And using spelling at the end of a debate is quite frankly childish and screams of low intellect trying to sound better than it really is.

 

[manoz]

The Greek institutions of learning which prmoted free thought and democracy surpassed any Islamic schools by centuries.

What do you think was taught in Islamic universities? Science? Logic?

It may have but Islam brought the knowledge to the rest of Europe and further.

 

[asim18]

Not all true. Issues such as the treatment of women are just different under different religions due to their fundamental religious texts. There's no getting away from that.

HE SAID "People are what do right or wrong, not religions."!

I know plenty of muslim women happy about being muslim.

 

[Pudney]

He is obviosuly a champion of 'liberal democracy' but denounces anyone who doesn't agree with him. I was simply trying to highlight his hypocrisy.

No, he is denouncing a morally reprehensible action taken by a people for no good reason other than blind xenophobia.

Requiring people to have some logic to back up their baseless political slogans?

He's given plenty of logic and facts whereas you've produced none, irony yet again.

The Greek institutions of learning which prmoted free thought and democracy surpassed any Islamic schools by centuries.

What do you think was taught in Islamic universities? Science? Logic?

Actually yes. Islamic centres of learning were far superior in regards to higher mathematics, science, astronomy and more for countless centuries whilst European knowledge stagnated. Then through trade and connections via areas such as Spain the knowledge spread through Western Europe.

Not all true. Issues such as the treatment of women are just different under different religions due to their fundamental religious texts. There's no getting away from that.

I can't remember what this related to and can't be bothered to look so won't comment.

 

[Vesta_Man]

It's been known for ages that Switzerland is a horribly racist country, this just compounds it further! Shame on Switzerland

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6992670.stm

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/electio...ect=1531&sid=8156064&cKey=1188502954000&ty=st

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1566080/Swiss-election-sparks-riots-and-racism.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-rise-over-racist-minaret-poster-1800587.html

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/front/C...ect=106&sid=11222758&cKey=1253103779000&ty=st

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...sm-as-foreigners-face-fondue-test-712665.html

 

[Ivan Drago]

Democracy has never been about popular vote, nor should it be. Perhaps you should read up on what democracy is.

You are wrong. Maybe you should read up on democracy and its foundations in ancient Greece.

As Alexis de Tocqueville put it, democracy is simply the 'tyranny of the majority'.

What do French people bring to the UK?

That's racist. Why are treating all French people as one. That's really narrow-minded.

As for French culture, they brought the values of the French revolution and the Enlightenment, not to mention great cuisine.

What values are being forced on them. Is shia law in place? do minarets change their way of life?

You mean Sharia. Shia is a branch of Islam.

This isn't a flame but your grammar and historical/political knowledge suggests you have not long been out of high school. There's a lot you need to learn.