Amature track car project - Advice needed
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![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
[TW]Fox;15431718 said:
Fox sums it up perfectly there.
I remember watching a R34 GTR with mega power at donny chasing a lotus exige. The skyline would catch right upto him on the straight where the dunlop tyre thing was lol. Then they would hit the corners near the stands and it would just be gone.. back around to the straights and the GTR would be back on him. The GTR must have had double the exige power but it just couldn't get past it. a lot of tracks don't have decent long straights and are quite tight.. Id of picked the exige all day long over the GTR and my email address has been Skyline002@ for over ten years so I have a right love afair with the skyline lol.
Most UK tracks are short and twisty. It's more down to the cornering speed and braking than anything else, which is why keeping the weight down is so important.
I only find that stuff noticeably pulls away from me over about 70 and unless it's obscenely powerful or a very long straight (I.e. back straight at Bedford) I can usually catch up again through the next corners.
The other problem is most cars are geared too high, ie their top speed would never be reached on a UK circuit, so you end up barely using top gear. The reason 1.6 205's are very popular is that they are low geared, so you can spend the entire lap revving the goolies off the thing. Even when they upgrade the engines to 16v they keep the 1.6 gearbox and final drive to make use of the better rev range.
A larger heavier car with more power will just flatter you on the straight and be less fun in the corners, but overall will probably annoy most of the other track users as they will be all over you every corner and then struggle on the straights. You see it at a lot of track days, someone in a big beemer or an audi who thinks they are a driving god as they manage to hold the faster cars off on the corner exits and straights, gradually building a nice procession until they get a black flag for holding everyone up
If you need any further proof that light is better, then I refer you to the top gear power lap board...
The lighter cars can stay with the finest supercars in the world Caterham R500 and Atom, and all of that is down to how they brake and corner.
A larger heavier car with more power will just flatter you on the straight and be less fun in the corners, but overall will probably annoy most of the other track users as they will be all over you every corner and then struggle on the straights. You see it at a lot of track days, someone in a big beemer or an audi who thinks they are a driving god as they manage to hold the faster cars off on the corner exits and straights, gradually building a nice procession until they get a black flag for holding everyone up
If you need any further proof that light is better, then I refer you to the top gear power lap board...
The lighter cars can stay with the finest supercars in the world Caterham R500 and Atom, and all of that is down to how they brake and corner.
Ewww nasty agricultural honda engined rental rubbish for kart circuits.
[TW]Fox;15431718 said:
Point taken, I'm just trying to find a reason/excuse to buy another BMW... How light would a stripped E30 325 be? Would it be closer to a small stripped hatch weight or would it still be too heavy to compete around corners?
If not, are there any small RWD hatches which would behave like my E46? I know you were talking about lift off oversteer in the 205 Dr Who but I wouldn't be using the same technique... maybe I should can the RWD aspect for now?
Also, I'm quite a big chap, 6'5", 17.5stone/110kg... I'm assuming this would hinder the lightness of a stripped car quite a bit. So would I have to compensate with a bigger engine? Or is that just going to add to the excess weight and make me even slower through the corners?
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I reckon a stripped 325 E30 would come in around 1000kgs, maybe less, but not with a cage included.
I am also same height and weight, not really an issue. Only small RWD Hatch I can think of is a Corolla AE86 (top of my head). Mk1 MR2 still a possibility?
If you go for a Mk2 golf or 205 engine swaps for more power are cheap and effective once you reach the engines limits, Mk1 MR2 can be supercharged as well.
I am also same height and weight, not really an issue. Only small RWD Hatch I can think of is a Corolla AE86 (top of my head). Mk1 MR2 still a possibility?
If you go for a Mk2 golf or 205 engine swaps for more power are cheap and effective once you reach the engines limits, Mk1 MR2 can be supercharged as well.
They seem to be fast enough for most people, and I really can't be arsed with the hassle of trailering/maintaining my own kart. I enjoy driving what I can get my hands on, I don't worry about other peoples opinions too much.
Yeah nah the Mk1 MR2 is definately a strong contender and is up towards the top of my list, but suprisingly is still behind the FWD MkII 16v GTi... I just loved this car to bits back in the day!
So the E30 could still be pretty agile as it's not too, too heavy... and if more money is spent on the suspension and brakes then it's abilities could contend with a small, nimble hatch maybe?
You are my spec (lol)? Coincidental or what! And it hasn't impeded performance at all? That's good, as I always thought with me being so heavy it would make the purchase of a lightweight car quite pointless. But I suppose 110kg isn't too much in car terms and is only maybe 30kg above the average... it just sounds so heavy when you say "17 n a half stone".
My friend (the one who is purchasing the car with me) is going to sign up to add his input and preferences as well so we should be able to get quite a good debate going to help find the perfect car to meet both our preferences.
Is there anymore news on Donington? Their website is quite vague so I'm not sure what's going on, maybe I will just give them a call.
Just over 30miles I think, I pass the M1 turn off for it on the way to work everyday. But I haven't got a free weekend till Xmas as this weekend is my friends 25th and next weekend is my Dads 60th... 
What track is in daventry? Or are you talking about Silverstone?
What track is in daventry? Or are you talking about Silverstone?
The E30 (driven a 323i manual and 325i auto) isn't too bad a car, one big failing imo (and in comparison to the mk1 MR2) is the almost complete lack of steering feel, there are various things which apparantly make it better (namely Z3 or E36 M3 Steering rack and/or running with no PAS pump, either 'dry' or with some oil/fluid)
In general terms though I'd still go with the mr2, it's lighter for one thing, and (again, imo) is a far more fun car. Limits wise the e30 seems to grip really well until it steps out nicely, not bad but semi-dull (more feedback from the steering could make this a million times better). On the other hand the mr2 has less overall grip, but ultimately very similar limits, does have a tendency to understeer first (whiteline arb's apparantly 'fix' this) but you can move the balance of the car and get it oversteering, or back to neutral, as/if you want, if that makes sense.
Basically what I'm trying to say is, if the choice was E30 or Mk1 MR2, I'd go Mk1 MR2 anyday, purely as I believe it's the more fun car, lap time wise I think it'd probably be close, maybe even edging in the E30's direction (stock 325 Vs mr2 the 325 has a decent power advantage with not a huge amount more weight), but for fun the MR2 has it.
On a kinda related note, that's why I'd go for E30/Mk1 MR2/MX-5 (or maybe another rwd car, but notable rwd), as Dr Who has said and shown, a FWD car isn't slow, but imo rwd is simply more fun, and for trackdays that's what I'd go for...
EDIT:
On Donington, I believe it's currently unusable, and with DVLL going into administration I'm not sure when (if ever
) it'll be fixed...
In general terms though I'd still go with the mr2, it's lighter for one thing, and (again, imo) is a far more fun car. Limits wise the e30 seems to grip really well until it steps out nicely, not bad but semi-dull (more feedback from the steering could make this a million times better). On the other hand the mr2 has less overall grip, but ultimately very similar limits, does have a tendency to understeer first (whiteline arb's apparantly 'fix' this) but you can move the balance of the car and get it oversteering, or back to neutral, as/if you want, if that makes sense.
Basically what I'm trying to say is, if the choice was E30 or Mk1 MR2, I'd go Mk1 MR2 anyday, purely as I believe it's the more fun car, lap time wise I think it'd probably be close, maybe even edging in the E30's direction (stock 325 Vs mr2 the 325 has a decent power advantage with not a huge amount more weight), but for fun the MR2 has it.
On a kinda related note, that's why I'd go for E30/Mk1 MR2/MX-5 (or maybe another rwd car, but notable rwd), as Dr Who has said and shown, a FWD car isn't slow, but imo rwd is simply more fun, and for trackdays that's what I'd go for...
EDIT:
On Donington, I believe it's currently unusable, and with DVLL going into administration I'm not sure when (if ever
) it'll be fixed...Just over 30miles I think, I pass the M1 turn off for it on the way to work everyday. But I haven't got a free weekend till Xmas as this weekend is my friends 25th and next weekend is my Dads 60th...
What track is in daventry? Or are you talking about Silverstone?
I will be there Tuesday to Friday, so thought I could take you for a spin, give you an idea of modified 205's.
However, if you are very happy with the Mk2 Golf, its a great car.
I would love to if you don't mind. The thing is I've been working late all last week, this week and I will be next week as well due to us having to have our programs into pre-production by the end of next week
So I don't leave Milton Keynes till around 8-9ish lately which might not be suitable for you. I will PM you (with a couple days notice of course) if I do think I'll get a chance to leave early on one of the days if that would be ok with you?Oh man that looks sooo much fun! I can't wait to get out on a track asap! Although sadly I think I'll have to wait till the new year when I am less busy
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The e30 rack is 4 turns lock to lock, which is less than ideal. Also bear in mind that the rubber guibo will be tired on the car and should be replaced by a solid metal item.
Personally, I find the Z3 rack makes the car too twitchy (2.7 turns lock 2 lock) for my liking, so I'm looking at alternatives now.
Wimp, my rack is 2.4 turns 
I know you hate me hehe. I have a soft spot for E30's tho, so can understand people wanting a good one for the track. Had a 325 Alpina in the family for a while, used to love it.
Think I am gonna give this thread 5 stars, as it has stayed on track, provoked good discussion and has some excellent info. Maybe it will one day be part of a track day sticky
I know you hate me hehe. I have a soft spot for E30's tho, so can understand people wanting a good one for the track. Had a 325 Alpina in the family for a while, used to love it.
Think I am gonna give this thread 5 stars, as it has stayed on track, provoked good discussion and has some excellent info. Maybe it will one day be part of a track day sticky