Hewlett Packard workers to strike

[Berserker]

I happen to think I deserve some protection against compulsory redundancy and that I deserve a pay rise so I'm going to damn well fight for it.

What makes you so important that you deserve protection against compulsory redundancy, yet I don't? We both probably work in the same sector, we both work for companies making decent profits. Compulsory redundancy isn't at all nice, but if the work isn't there, then it isn't there. Employers who pay people to do non-existant work are liable not to be employers for very much longer. Oh, and I didn't get a pay rise this year either.

As it happens, I happen to agree with this strike purely on the grounds that it sounds like HP may have dumped on their employees from a great height - and that doesn't just mean a pay freeze and redundancies. Employment law only goes so far.

PS - I got a break and found an alternative role. I think one or two others have too, but for most they'll be getting their P45 in a few weeks.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

What makes you so important that you deserve protection against compulsory redundancy, yet I don't?

Erm, I do think you deserve protection against compulsory redundancy. Show me where I said different?

And if the company was truly in trouble, then I wouldn't be against redundancies, or pay freezes (or cuts). But the company aren't in trouble - they are now the most profitable IT company in the world. So - if they are going to screw around with me and my colleagues, me and my colleagues are going to screw around with them until they show us some goddamn respect!

 

[Berserker]

Erm, I do think you deserve protection against compulsory redundancy. Show me where I said different?

You didn't, but by implication it wasn't unreasonable to read that into your post. If you think that the HP strike can bring protection for anyone against compulsory redundancy, then you're delusional. You simply can't do non-existent work (unless of course you're a civil servant - but that's for another thread).

 

[Mekrel]

Erm, I do think you deserve protection against compulsory redundancy. Show me where I said different?

And if the company was truly in trouble, then I wouldn't be against redundancies, or pay freezes (or cuts). But the company aren't in trouble - they are now the most profitable IT company in the world. So - if they are going to screw around with me and my colleagues, me and my colleagues are going to screw around with them until they show us some goddamn respect!

Share Holders

 

[Deleted member 66701]

If you think that the HP strike can bring protection for anyone against compulsory redundancy,

HP staff on the SPVA account voted for strike action back in Feb in protest of planned CR's and pay freezes. On the eve of the day of the strike, the company conceded and awarded an inflationary pay increase, pay progression and signed a 1 yr deal guaranteeing no CR's.

Now tell me who's dellusional.

 

[Berserker]

None of which is protection against CR. They just found an alternative. Shame it had to come to threats of strike action for that to happen - the law requires a consultation period (30 or 90 days) in which alternatives to CR should be explored. Besides unfair dismissal, that's the 'protection' you're entitled to (oh, and by the way, that protection came from the EU).

 

[Deleted member 66701]

None of which is protection against CR

Erm, they signed a legally binding document guaranteeing no CR's. If they don't honour it all hell breaks loose.

(oh, and by the way, that protection came from the EU).

And the the unions provided the draft law to the EU to ratify. They'd be no protection without the unions and it's the unions that police that protection.

But anyway - enough stupid arguing on an internet forum (no one wins) - lets see where we are in two weeks time - the proof is in the pudding as they say.

 

[Berserker]

Erm, they signed a legally binding document guaranteeing no CR's. If they don't honour it all hell breaks loose.

OK, that's protection (provided it is really a legally binding document - i.e. written into contracts - which I'm sure it will be as one would at least hope the union thought of that), but it's still specific to those particular circumstances. If you can get it again, then good luck to you.

 

[Manlove is my forte]

Part of the reason for the strikes is that HP - Enterprise Services (formally EDS) Is the only section in the company with year on year profit increases from last year and the year before.

If HP had not purchased EDS then it would be seeing a 20% year on year drop in profits. Rather than a (marginal) increase in profits year on year. -Note I said Profit not revenue. a 20% drop in profit is still a profit.

Yet it is HP Enterprise services that has had to take 2 years of pay freezes (the rest of HP were entitled to Pay rises and a bonus last year EDS wasn't) a 5 % paycut (followed by a further 10% paycut in the US for one month) and 80-90% of the layoffs HP has made. The HP Manufacturing sections have been largely untouched in the whole affair.

Another fact to consider is that The IT service industry is largely untroubled by short term recessions due to the length of contracts with customers, and the fact that other companies which are looking to make cutbacks will turn to outsourcing their IT. The CEO of HP said as much about this time last year.

So HP Enterprise Services Staff feel bloody hard done by that they are contributing the majority of the success of the company, they are the ones who are enabling the massive executive bonuses ($42 million for the CEO last year), they are the ones which are making a massive contribution to the Share price rising over the last 2 years rather than dropping.

The simple fact is there is no justification for the actions being taken other than corporate greed. HP is making more profit than it did last year, and more profit than the year before, before the Credit Crunch and Recession had occurred.

The Employees of HP Enterprise Services have every right to feel hard done by and every right to take industrial action to draw attention to the fact that they are unhappy with the direction the management is taking the company.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Manlove is my forte is my new best friend You've hit the nail on the head there.

Thanks for the support!

 

[Mucky_Pup]

Where I work we've been provionsally offered 0%, but they may look at increasing our bonus for next year, I'd rather have no bonus and a pay rise tbh.

 

[I get around]

Would you rather they doubled the price of printer cartridges?

Think carefully...

Their shareholders will demand those profits regardless of the effect on workers, and the board will do what it must to maintain those profits.

Welcome to capitalism.

Which is why you need a mix of capitalism and socialism, if you just treat the people like crap they're going to be less efficient and eventually revolt against you.
Good on them I say, never let someone push you about for the sake of a few rich ponces at the top sitting in their mansion.

 

[Django x2]

not sure where this info is coming from, but I can guarantee it's not accurate. HP employees have been told there is money available for pay rises and bonuses

 

[Skiddley]

OK, lets clear a few things up.....

Revenue was 30.8Bn USD last quarter, generating 3.4Bn USD cash net.

US workers are having a MUCH harder time right now, with imposed pay cuts of 5-30%. UK employees had to approve their cuts of 5-10%. If you said no, no problem. If you said yes - you get an equivalent bonus this year (nothing going forward).

HP are paying additional bonuses for those who deserve them.

It has been a tough year, but there are green shoots - ride the storm. I haven't had a pay rise in 18months - and that's ok.

I guess we all have personal stories - and I'm from HP Enterprise Services working my socks off, so I feel your pain - but this won't last forever?

Some of the recent announcements and acquisitions are very positive for the stragety of the company I think.

 

[Django x2]

I lol, because HPs "profit" has purely come from the fact that they've sacked people and had paycuts.

 

[Skiddley]

I lol, because HPs "profit" has purely come from the fact that they've sacked people and had paycuts.

They acquired EDS - with 100k employees - there was bound to be job function overlap . In many cases people are leaving with a great deal of cash depending upon locale & service time - it ain't cheap. It's about long-term strategy.

Although I do agree, to a certain extent the economic climate has been used to justify enforced pay cuts, and exec paycuts are misleading in their representation.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

not sure where this info is coming from, but I can guarantee it's not accurate. HP employees have been told there is money available for pay rises and bonuses

We've been told there will be a bonus pot but that it will be very small (£300 ish) and it will only be for "stellar performers" (1% of employees - i.e. senior management).

They have stated again there is NO money for pay increases. Well, that was a couple of weeks ago. Suprisingly, since the strike vote they seem to be softening up a little - mainly by trying to bribe us with non existent bonuses - the members have seen right through that one though.

 

[Manlove is my forte]

I guess we all have personal stories - and I'm from HP Enterprise Services working my socks off, so I feel your pain - but this won't last forever?

My personal opinion is, that if the employees continue to stand back and take this treatment much longer, things will never bounce back. The Upper management need to recognise that the Staff are an asset not a commodity.

 

[[TW]Fox]

We've been told there will be a bonus pot but that it will be very small (£300 ish) and it will only be for "stellar performers" (1% of employees - i.e. senior management).

They have stated again there is NO money for pay increases. Well, that was a couple of weeks ago. Suprisingly, since the strike vote they seem to be softening up a little - mainly by trying to bribe us with non existent bonuses - the members have seen right through that one though.

It staggars me that you continue to work for them if you hate your employer this much. Seriously, is it worth the stress?

 

[Manlove is my forte]

It staggars me that you continue to work for them if you hate your employer this much. Seriously, is it worth the stress?

I don't think hate is the correct word... Frustrated and disappointed are better descriptions.

and like Skiddley said the plans for the future are promising. There is a part of Every HPer that wants to say "I'm part of the largest IT organisation in the world and I contributed to making the corporation a success". However, we want the company to recognise our contribution and treat us fairly and with respect.