Why do PC users dislike Apple?

[r3loaded]

For reasons that I don't have time to go into, I was using a friend's MacBook Pro recently, and for some reason I just don't find Mac OS to be as user friendly. All the keyboard shortcuts are completely different, which reduced by productivity by 50-60% straight away. Screen was lower-res than my 15-inch laptop's spacious 1680x1050 display, making me feel immediately claustrophobic and the text was noticeably blurrier to me as a result.

Then there's the fact that Apple, in their infinite wisdom, have decided that I don't need Home, End, Page Up and Page Down keys, again making it difficult to get my work done. Similarly, the Backspace key was labelled Delete, as well as the Ctrl, Alt and Windows/Super keys being remarked with some indecipherable symbols, leading to some confusing moments.The keyboard itself felt flimsy, with very little key travel, making touch-typing difficult. The clicky touchpad annoyed the hell out of me, it's so difficult to drag and drop without having separate mouse buttons.

But to me, the worst bit was having to deal with the office software on the Mac. The UI is just a complete car crash compared to office 2007/2010, with a mish-mash of toolbars that appear in the application window, and an idiot menu bar that appeared at the top of the screen. I kid you not, it took me literally 5 minutes to find a command that I can find in 30 seconds in Office 2010. Other user experience issues I found - maximising a window doesn't actually maximise it, Alt+Tab only flips between programs instead of open windows, closing the last window of a program doesn't actually exit the program. Honestly, it's a nightmare to manage and track everything if you have 3 or more windows open. In contrast, I find Windows 7 to be exceptionally beautiful at performing the very basic task of managing windows.

Macs are very cool - right up until the very point when you actually need to get work done.

 

[mr.sly]

For reasons that I don't have time to go into, I was using a friend's MacBook Pro recently, and for some reason I just don't find Mac OS to be as user friendly. All the keyboard shortcuts are completely different, which reduced by productivity by 50-60% straight away. Screen was lower-res than my 15-inch laptop's spacious 1680x1050 display, making me feel immediately claustrophobic and the text was noticeably blurrier to me as a result.

Then there's the fact that Apple, in their infinite wisdom, have decided that I don't need Home, End, Page Up and Page Down keys, again making it difficult to get my work done. Similarly, the Backspace key was labelled Delete, as well as the Ctrl, Alt and Windows/Super keys being remarked with some indecipherable symbols, leading to some confusing moments.The keyboard itself felt flimsy, with very little key travel, making touch-typing difficult. The clicky touchpad annoyed the hell out of me, it's so difficult to drag and drop without having separate mouse buttons.

But to me, the worst bit was having to deal with the office software on the Mac. The UI is just a complete car crash compared to office 2007/2010, with a mish-mash of toolbars that appear in the application window, and an idiot menu bar that appeared at the top of the screen. I kid you not, it took me literally 5 minutes to find a command that I can find in 30 seconds in Office 2010. Other user experience issues I found - maximising a window doesn't actually maximise it, Alt+Tab only flips between programs instead of open windows, closing the last window of a program doesn't actually exit the program. Honestly, it's a nightmare to manage and track everything if you have 3 or more windows open. In contrast, I find Windows 7 to be exceptionally beautiful at performing the very basic task of managing windows.

Macs are very cool - right up until the very point when you actually need to get work done.

Shortcuts are standard across applications unlike on Windows. For example Command + , will always open up the preferences for an application in OS X.

They do have Home, End, Page Up and Page Down keys.

You can't blame Apple for Microsofts poor UI team.

 

[bhavv]

But microsofts UI is far better than Apples.

Always has been to me.

 

[mr.sly]

But microsofts UI is far better than Apples.

Always has been to me.

I don't believe you've ever used Windows then.

 

[muon]

You can't blame Apple for Microsofts poor UI team.

edit: Sorry misinterpreted.

But microsofts UI is far better than Apples.

Always has been to me.

I don't believe you've ever used Windows then.

So Apple's UI is definitely better? No one who has used both possibly come to any other conclusion?

Like he says, its better to him. His opinion.

 

[kylew]

I don't believe you've ever used Windows then.

mr.sly, would you go and look up the meaning of "opinion" please? It'd make for less odd comments from you.

On topic:

Generally, I think people who actually take time out to HATE Apple are a bit lame.

Personally, I don't like Apple as a company, same way I dislike nVidia as a company, though nVidia are arguably far worse than apple, at least they try to be innovative, don't try to rip their customers and everyone else off all at the same time, and are a bit more honest about what you're buying.

I actually quite like Apple's hardware, I think it looks rather nice, I also like OSX too, though I believe that what you pay to get a computer that is as nice looking as a mac (well a mac) with OSX on it is just too much.

I've actually got myself a "hackintosh" which dual boots Windows 7 and OSX10.5, I really like OSX10.5, but in the meantime, it's just something to play with as I pretty much need Windows running most of the time on my server.

However, I do have plans to make myself a "naughty" computer that runs OSX as I like the OS, I'm just not in to the cost of the hardware, not at all.

I'd have more respect for the Apple boys if they just admitted that they didn't care that Apple hardware is overpriced, they love it and still want to buy it.

Fair play to them really. What I will say though is that I don't like how Apple market themselves as "better than everyone" without any real basis of truth on that.

I personally couldn't use "just" a mac, I'd need a Windows computer too for me to be able to do everything I want with a computer.

To me, OSX is a nice compliment to a Windows PC, and it's a nice break from the "same", some different scenery for a change. I generally think for "most" computer users who have requirements, an Apple computer isn't really for them, yet they have this status of "it'll do everything, better than a PC".

Great for those who don't need to do anything a Mac can't, but I know of a lot of people (like already mentioned) who have bought a Mac for multiple reasons, it looks good (they all do), I've heard rave reviews on them, my mate's got one and thinks it's great etc. Only for them to buy it, hate it and then be unable to do anything about it because they aren't aware of their consumer rights so don't know they can return within a certain amount of time.

A lot of people hate change too, and find OSX unusable due to it being so different to windows in certain aspects.

What I've used OSX for, I've quite liked, but in my whole time using it, it never felt like "My computer" the way my windows one does, it was a bit too impersonal for my likes. But that's just my opinion on an apple computer.

If they were cheaper, I think they'd get a lot less stick except from the diehards, which you'll find everywhere, for everything.

This one retarded Mac Fanboy on youtube who is an utter joke, knows nothing about computers full stop, but pretends he does and uses it as a basis to hate Windows/Microsoft and anyone who uses a Windows computer.

The lies he'd come out with were bizarre, "no one upgrades PCs, it's dumb, and those of you who do, then you're just dumb, no one does that, it's just dumb."

He didn't seem to know that people can, and do regularly upgrade a lot of their computers, I reckon most Mac users on here even upgrade their machines, whether it be RAM, a new graphics card or more HDDs, but you get really bad fanboys of everything.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Be gentle. This is posted on my iPhone so there may well be crazy spelling or grammar issues...

That's the basis of marketing though; spout what you do better than everyone else.

I hate what the "I'm a Mac" ads have become but their message rings true and it made Microsoft retaliate so they served a purpose.

Something only becomes expensive if the outlay doesn't justify the purpose. E.g. Buying a Mac Pro and using it to write reports. In that case you could easily see that buying a small netbook is better, but what if you need a Mac?

Example. When I was running a recording studio we had to replace our old PowerMac with a newer Mac Pro. Not because we had to, but we had a lot of OS-specific software and hardware which tied us in.

It's much harder for the hardcore Windows builders to grasp what's good about a Mac as they're used to comparing spec and getting bang per buck. The same way the Mac diehards won't go back to a PC - they're used to buying a machine that works with minimal hassle.

I still don't think the cost is an issue. They're never going to match the Dell or other OEM machines for price, just because that's the way the company is run (premium brand). They never claim to win on bang per buck but whether this is "paying for the brand" is dependant on your needs but ultimately it's your cash.

I like buying the machines because they're well put together, it serves a purpose and I haven't the time to build a PC anymore. I still use Windows for work, so being able to load that up on the same machine helps as it reduces the need for a seperate system.

emeek is the fanboy your referring to? Yes, that's one level of crazy I've not seen since I ventured in to the graphics subforum

Summary; buy what makes you happy.

 

[Neodite]

From what i find most people that use macs dont understand that all they are is an overpriced specd PC with a differant OS.

If you really wanted to run mac OS then why not build your own PC and download OSX and hack it on? Apple carn't sell the OS so they make there products stupidly overpriced to compensate.

And the best way to look at is there are things you can't do on your shiny mac that you can do on your windows OS. But this does not work the other way around.

Altho saying that i do own an iPhone, and yes it's overpriced, but in terms of other phones i still prefer it to others.

This carnt be said for a differant OS. If i wanted a OSX type OS id get linux

Oh and the argument of a mac just works, guess what, so does a computer running windows 7, shock horror

*EDIT*

Ive also just looked in the post your OS X SS thread, and all you see is the same thing with a differant wallpaper.

Which leads me to anouther problem with all apple products, you have to have it how THEY want you to have it, where as linux and windows you can have everything to your taste/looks.

Same as the iPhone, i wasn't really happy with the limitations with it intill i Jailbroke it, but thats just me, i like to beable to do what i want with the stuff i pay £££ on

 

[craptakular]

Yes, because to me, how loud it can go is more important than ''quality''. I have different requirements...

NAIL ON HEAD springs to mind.

 

[fez]

Both have their merits. I bought it partly because I like the looks, party because I like the way it works and thirdly I cant be bothered building my own pcs any more. I like windows and windows 7 is very nice but I still prefer my iMac.

Whoever said that macs dont have page down keys etc needs to learn how to google. A keyboard is not the same around the world. I bit of thought might tell you that you probably wouldnt work as quickly on an OS that is new to you as one that you have used for years. Have a little sense please.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

I like the design on macs......but nothing that I want works on a mac.

For a start, I am a pc gamer. Macs can run windows, but then that pretty much defeats the point in spending the extra £££ on a mac.

Ive always had the image that macs can make videos and pictures easily but cannot really do much else (I have not used a mac for a fair few years I admit).

For a gamer with an interest in hardware the only choice imo is a pc, which has just got better with windows 7.

 

["andy"]

my only apple dislike is how ridiculous there fanboys can be. they have to constantly tell everyone how much better they are than everyone else and they usually do this by making up things or using awful comparisons . infact its happened loads in this thread... someone gives an opinion about windows or a pc manufacturer and apple fans just have to tell them theyre wrong. its a bloomin opinion

the 'apple customer service is amazing omg' is a pet hate of mine too. its nothing special. any big manufacturer offers similar service when you pay for there version of 'applecare' infact id even go as far as saying i got much better service from dell. they sent a technician to my house to swap a laptop motherboard out ! was incredible

anyway i dont hate apple. i own one and dont own a pc...

 

[kylew]

my only apple dislike is how ridiculous there fanboys can be. they have to constantly tell everyone how much better they are than everyone else and they usually do this by making up things or using awful comparisons . infact its happened loads in this thread... someone gives an opinion about windows or a pc manufacturer and apple fans just have to tell them theyre wrong. its a bloomin opinion

the 'apple customer service is amazing omg' is a pet hate of mine too. its nothing special. any big manufacturer offers similar service when you pay for there version of 'applecare' infact id even go as far as saying i got much better service from dell. they sent a technician to my house to swap a laptop motherboard out ! was incredible

anyway i dont hate apple. i own one and dont own a pc...

To be honest, I would say that Dell have exhibited the best customer services for hardware for me as well.

I had an Ultrasharp 2407 monitor with a dead pixel, which they replaced next day, to my door, with a 2408, and that's their standard procedure.


I think of Apple fanboys in the same was as nVidia fanboys, it's generally an extremely lack of knowledge that fuels their weird and irrational behaviour.

 

[OzyOly]

you buy apple for the software not the hardware. Simple as.

 

[bigredshark]

Again, its quite hard to find people (beyond the internet) that bough a mac because it was they believe the best for them with actually good arguments. Apple pander to creating a "brand" and I congratulate them on that. Obviously they are genuinely useful to a lot of people, and are well designed. People were buying macs before the recent "coolness" craze.

This is likely the best post in this entire thread because it sums up almost everything to be said in this argument.

- There are people who buy Apple because it's a 'cool' brand
- There are people who buy Apple because it makes logical sense for them.
- There are people who buy Apple because it's the standard in their industry

All of those things are true, none of them take away from each other. Too many people think that because the first is true, somebody who buys a Mac for the second reason is automatically stupid and vain. That's just illogical.

For me, I need a laptop which is powerful, offers decent battery life and good build quality. There are a few which meet that requirement (generally priced much the same at around £1500 - Macbook Pro/Dell Precision etc). Now my work requires a Unix shell frequently, that's a big plus for a Mac and one of things which helps tip the balance for ME. I like the design too which helps as, while I won't do it at the cost of ability, given two functionally identical options I'll happily pay a bit more for good design. And at the end of the day, cost doesn't matter greatly to me, I'm successful and well paid, I use my laptop every day and it'll last for at least a couple of years - I'd happily spend £3k if it was the best solution for me.

The point of that (long) paragraph is that, for me, there's no question a Macbook Pro is the best solution overall. I have a MCSE from back in the day, I've recently completed my CCIE - there's not much I don't know about technology so I'm fairly well qualified to make that decision.

I'm also constantly surprised by the number of technical people who use Mac's - I currently work for one of the largest hosting and online companies in the UK and from director level, through project managers and senior tech staff, there's a lot of Mac's about on people's desks. You can't claim those people aren't smart enough to know better. Reinforces the point, plenty of people use Mac's as it's the better solution for them.

There are people (who you may consider idiots) who buy apple because it's a fashionable brand and it'd kill them to be seen in a coffee shop with a Dell, but don't tar every Apple user with that brush.

I can understand some PC users who hate Mac's because the advertising has a smug superior tone to it (and as a mac user, yeah, I enjoy those adverts a bit...) and that rubs them the wrong way. But most of the hatred is fuelled (as most hatred is full stop) by the fact it's something they don't understand, something they don't know about.

Anyway - ghost101 - have a cookie for a very effective post...

 

[mr.sly]

mr.sly, would you go and look up the meaning of "opinion" please? It'd make for less odd comments from you.

I'd love to look up opinion, if opinion had anything to do with it. The UI in Mac OS X is well designed, consistent and makes using the OS even easier.

Whereas in Windows, despite how shinny Windows 7 now looks and how far the UI has improved over the years, it's still not consistent and in places makes it difficult for the user to know what to do.

The fact that the Windows team isn't in control of the UI of Windows (it's in the hands of the Office team) and they can't even follow their own UI guidelines is also mind boggling. At least set an example to other developers who will be developing for your OS.

Below I've included a few (of many) examples for you.

 

[Tunney]

Apple's products: Fantastic.
Apple as a company: *******.
Some's of Apple's most vocal fans: Also complete *******.

That's why most hate them.

 

[NickK]

I love these arguments as they always seem to have the same warped logic - if I'm right then you must be wrong. Black & White. Yes and No. So binary..

In short everyone has an opinion as valid as each other and I pity those that think differently.

So you prefer X over Y. So be it. It has no baring on anyone else..

 

[r3loaded]

Apple's products: Fantastic.
Apple as a company: *******.
Some's of Apple's most vocal fans: Also complete *******.

That's why most hate them.

Quoted for Truth.

Also add: Apple's pricing - does not make financial sense for many, but meets the requirements for many other perfectly.

 

[PermaBanned]

Mac users are PC users.