Best single slot, self-powered GPU for micro board.

Pete.Dakota · 3 Jan 2010 at 20:28

I suppose a PSU upgrade may also be required. I guess I could upgradge to a better PSU with a PCI-e cable and get a beefier, although still single slot card.

Thanks for the help so far.

fizzy · 3 Jan 2010 at 23:03

Hmm.. sounds like the usual HP/PB rebranded stuff, with no real idea who originally made it. It would suggest regarding it as a budget make psu then.

The problem with the smaller cases is they often don't use standard or even micro atx power supplies, so getting a higher rated equivalent would be difficult and may even require getting a new case - which kinda defeats the object of getting pre-built systems in the first place.

As for single slot cards - as previously mentioned, the cards above the one I listed (at least for ATI) seem to be dual slot cards, kinda ruling those out for the case anyway.

You could try the 4670 or perhaps the 4650 (or lower) in the machine and see how it goes - or perhaps getting the earlier model equivalents 2nd hand for less of a risk. However if the psu fails due to more strain with the GFX card not sure how the warranty situation would hold up.

Another alternative would be to buy a cheap larger case and standard psu and rehouse it all - but obviously warranty would be out the window then for sure.

(In fact, what was the case and psu like on the old pc?

)

Hope you get it all sorted. Are you able to take it back and exchange for a more gaming orientated machine? (or get a refund and get something from ocuk instead

).

Pete.Dakota · 3 Jan 2010 at 23:16

fizzy said:
Another alternative would be to buy a cheap larger case and standard psu and rehouse it all - but obviously warranty would be out the window then for sure. (In fact, what was the case and psu like on the old pc? )

Hope you get it all sorted. Are you able to take it back and exchange for a more gaming orientated machine? (or get a refund and get something from ocuk instead ).

The old case is big. But it's not really the case that's the issue; it's the motherboard itself. The front access slots (USB, audio, power button etc.) cables all plug into the mobo under the PCI-e slot, so any dual slot card is going to block them.

I did consider throwing it all back in the old case, but that would only solve the power problem. I guess then I could definitely go for a single slot card if it fits, without power being an issue.

fizzy · 3 Jan 2010 at 23:42

Pete.Dakota said:
The old case is big. But it's not really the case that's the issue; it's the motherboard itself. The front access slots (USB, audio, power button etc.) cables all plug into the mobo under the PCI-e slot, so any dual slot card is going to block them.

I did consider throwing it all back in the old case, but that would only solve the power problem. I guess then I could definitely go for a single slot card if it fits, without power being an issue.

Ahh - ok, so you could use a dual slot cooler solution so long as the 2nd slot section is no lower than, say, and inch above the board to allow clearance of the plugs and such?

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-114-HT&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=1515 - something like this, or this http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-117-PC&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=1434 - rather than the high end "full enclosure" like ati are currently using, depending on where the connections are located?

You could look out for passive coolers like the zalman ones (like that - http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HS-029-ZA&groupid=701&catid=57&subcat=787) that use heatpipes and situate the cooler above (on the back of) the card - assuming there is nothing in the slot or space above the card? You could then always attach a fan on it or nearby to help actively cool it. I used one of these on a 2600XT and it worked a treat.

Is there a spare back plate blanking slot there too - as dual slot cards also tend to have a double backplate?

Depends how far you want to go though - as obviously these various options start adding up in costs...

Pete.Dakota · 3 Jan 2010 at 23:43

OK - I'm going to go for it. I'll never know until I can actually have the card here in my hand. But I've just found the 1GB DDR2 version for the same price on a competitor's website and I have two questions:

Will the 1GB DDR2 version draw more power or the same?
Will the drop to DDR2 impact performance? Basically, is the extra memory worth it...

Thanks again.

reflux · 3 Jan 2010 at 23:50

The extra memory is not worth it by any means. The GPU is not powerful enough to take advantage of it, and the lower speed will impact will impact performance.

If you're talking about the 4670 that is.

Pete.Dakota · 3 Jan 2010 at 23:53

fizzy said:
Ahh - ok, so you could use a dual slot cooler solution so long as the 2nd slot section is no lower than, say, and inch above the board to allow clearance of the plugs and such?

Yes, however, I will need to test the PSU from the old rig. I still can't be sure what killed his PC, it's definitely a hardware problem (no boot after a few days of crashing), and don't want to put a faulty PSU on new hardware. Can one 'test' a PSU at all? Maybe taking it to a computer shop?

fizzy said:
Is there a spare back plate blanking slot there too - as dual slot cards also tend to have a double backplate?

In the current, newer case, no. The PCI-e slot aligns with the lowest backplate. As backplates go "down" on dual slot cards there'll be no space. It's funny: if PCI-e cards went up, or could be bought in that configuration, there'd be no problem at all. In the old case there'd be room for both backplates on the chassis.

fizzy said:
Depends how far you want to go though - as obviously these various options start adding up in costs...

It's annoying, ha.

If I put it in the old case with the old PSU, then why not a 5770, or something, I tell myself. Or I could just throw a 4670 in current case and tell him to shut up and be happy with what he's got. Or I could make it a little project for my ammusement - ha.

fizzy · 4 Jan 2010 at 00:00

Pete.Dakota said:
Yes, however, I will need to test the PSU from the old rig. I still can't be sure what killed his PC, it's definitely a hardware problem (no boot after a few days of crashing), and don't want to put a faulty PSU on new hardware. Can one 'test' a PSU at all? Maybe taking it to a computer shop?

Yes, you can test a power supply. There are some psu testers available on here for easy testing (edit - well, there USED to be

), but can also be done if you have and are able to use a multi meter to check voltage levels on the pins. If not then a hobbyist style pc shop may be able to check it for you (doubt any high street retailers would though).

I agree it should be tested if you think there's a chance that's what killed the old pc. Depends on the nature of the fault. You could always try the psu from the new pc in the old one and see if that resurrects it (proving faulty old psu), although you would probably have an issue with cable lengths.

Pete.Dakota said:
In the current, newer case, no. The PCI-e slot aligns with the lowest backplate. As backplates go "down" on dual slot cards there'll be no space. It's funny: if PCI-e cards went up, or could be bought in that configuration, there'd be no problem at all. In the old case there'd be room for both backplates on the chassis.

Ahh - ok, so a double backplate is out then, so it would have to be a card with a suitable cooler (single or compact double) with a single backplate, if you leave everything in the original case.

Pete.Dakota said:
It's annoying, ha.

If I put it in the old case with the old PSU, then why not a 5770, or something, I tell myself. Or I could just throw a 4670 in current case and tell him to shut up and be happy with what he's got. Or I could make it a little project for my amusement - ha.

Lots of options = hard to make a decision, or so I've found - especially if it's somebody else's kit.

Orcvader · 4 Jan 2010 at 00:05

If it's like that then, the 4670 is probably the best choice for him. It's enough to run Sims 3 as the others have said too but it won't be able to handle the more complex games as smooth as the other cards.

Pete.Dakota · 4 Jan 2010 at 00:23

Right - the plan is:

Fit the new rig in to the old case, keeping the current 250W PSU. If it all fits and works nicely, then...

Get the PSU tested at a hobby shop. If the PSU isn't faulty...

Go for that HIS 5770. Eyeballing it, the heatsink appears to have plenty of clearance. I'm glad you got exactly what I was going on about, Fizzy. That extra clearance is really all I need.

fizzy · 4 Jan 2010 at 00:30

Pete.Dakota said:
Right - the plan is:

Fit the new rig in to the old case, keeping the current 250W PSU. If it all fits and works nicely, then...

Get the PSU tested at a hobby shop. If the PSU isn't faulty...

Go for that HIS 5770. Eyeballing it, the heatsink appears to have plenty of clearance. I'm glad you got exactly what I was going on about, Fizzy. That extra clearance is really all I need.

Glad to hear you have a plan. Let me know how you get on - kinda curious how it turns our now.

Been working on pc's for years now for various people, so worked with a lot of the prebuilt stuff out there when people have had hassle with support etc. You soon get to know all the "quirks" of such setups.

Pete.Dakota · 4 Jan 2010 at 01:16

I'll be moving the rig into the old case tomorrow night. Then hopefully get the PSU tested on Tuesday (day off

). I'll let you know who it all goes. I'm hoping he'll wind up with the 5770; then his next upgrade can be a bigger screen!

dlknight · 4 Jan 2010 at 10:15

Hey Pete,

I'd try and borrow a card if you can first as I have had problems in the past trying to get add-in cards working on these pre-built PC's.

In particular a Dell PC that refused to recognize a NVIDIA 9500GT even though it worked perfectly fine in my home made rigs at home. I ended up building a PC to replace the Dell and recycled what I could (CPU, DVD etc...).

Good luck!

Pete.Dakota · 6 Jan 2010 at 17:12

Well after inadvertently posting a competitor link (sorry again, mods

) and waiting out the two day ban, I've achieved the following:

I moved the new components into the old, larger case - no problem
I got the old PSU tested - working order
Fitted the old PSU onto the new rig - fine and dandy
I have ordered a Powercolor 5770!

As I only need the power button plugged into the mobo, I actually have a lot more space than originally thought. But as this mobo is only PCI-e 1.00, I figure there's no point paying all that extra for a 5850 if the lane is going to act as bottleneck. Also I don't intend to overclock the CPU at all.

I'd say a Q8300 at 2.5Ghz, 3GB of DDR2 and a 5770 should run games quite well, won't you?

jigger · 6 Jan 2010 at 17:45

Yeah it should be good but you need to up the CPU speed.

Its a mith that a PCIE 1.0 slot will bottle neck a card.

fizzy · 6 Jan 2010 at 17:45

I wondered what had happened there.

Sounds like things are going well then - and yes, that should be a nice setup for games. I'm surprised it's only a pcie 1.0 slot though on a new pc. Still - if I recall correctly there's only about a max 5% loss in performance if that between using a v1 compared to a v2 slot with a v2 card (although that was comparing the max spec x16 pcie slots).

Regardless, it will be a nice step up from the old one by the sounds of it.

fizzy · 6 Jan 2010 at 17:47

jigger said:
Yeah it should be good but you need to up the CPU speed.

Another down side to pre-built pc's - they don't generally have many fancy options in the bios to allow overclocking.

Pete.Dakota · 6 Jan 2010 at 17:49

fizzy said:
Another down side to pre-built pc's - they don't generally have many fancy options in the bios to allow overclocking.

Yeah - this is my reckoning, also. Maybe I'll have a look and see what's in there.

Pete.Dakota · 13 Jan 2010 at 16:04

OK the 5770 is in and running! No problems! Couldn't quite max out The Sims 3 as I was expecting, and the screen tears a lot - even with "wait for vertical refresh" forced in the CCC. Any ideas?