Poll: Which party will get your vote in the General Election?

[semi-pro waster]

That will do for me...and yes i am being serious.

Fair enough then, you may guess that I'm never likely to agree with that viewpoint but I can't knock the honesty.

 

[Barks]

Oh and don't forget we have the Tories to thank for the fact our electricity and gas bills have VAT applied to them. They never used to, because VAT is supposed to be for luxury goods, not the essentials of life. And if it wasn't for the opposition, it would be full rate at 17.5% because that's what the Tories wanted to do. Never forget that.

I am not questioning the authenticity of your statement but is there anything I can read about that? It seems extremely unlikely any party would do this as it's practically robbing those on lower incomes in broad daylight.

With regards to the other post above, I would never support the notion of decreasing income tax and increasing VAT. That would hit those on lower incomes much harder. The only scenario where it would be acceptable to raise VAT against income tax is when you'd want to encourage saving and reduce consumption but even then it would be beneficial to the rich.

 

[dirtydog]

I am not questioning the authenticity of your statement but is there anything I can read about that? It seems extremely unlikely any party would do this as it's practically robbing those on lower incomes in broad daylight.

Yes, it is. But they did.

Try this: http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=49472

It was massively contentious at the time.

9. "I have no plans to raise the...level of national insurance contributions." (John Major, 28 January 1992)

November 1993, National Insurance Contributions increased from 9% to 10%.

Cost: £520.94

10. "We have no need and no plans to extend the scope of VAT." (John Major, 27 March 1992)

November 1993, VAT on domestic fuel and power imposed at 8% with a provision to rise to 17.5% in November 1994.

Cost: £197.19

11. "Lower tax - that's my aim for Britain." (John Major, 20 March 1992)

November 1993, Insurance tax at 2.5% on home contents insurance.

Cost: £7.65

12. "We want to bring tax down." (John Major, 25 March 1992)

November 1993, Insurance tax at 2.5% on home buildings insurance.

Cost: £12.05

13. "The future lies in bringing taxes down further - not shoving them back up." (John Major, 18 March 92)

November 1993, Insurance tax at 2.5% on vehicle insurance.

Cost: £20.77

14. "In the next Parliament we'll go on tax cutting." (John Major, 7 April 1992)

November 1994, Air Transport tax.

Cost: £60.00

 

[Hatter The Mad]

Oh and don't forget we have the Tories to thank for the fact our electricity and gas bills have VAT applied to them. They never used to, because VAT is supposed to be for luxury goods, not the essentials of life. And if it wasn't for the opposition, it would be full rate at 17.5% because that's what the Tories wanted to do. Never forget that.

VAT on domestic fuel was initially announced in Norman Lamont's March 1993 budget. He introduced the tax at a starting rate of 8% rate in 1994.

 

[dirtydog]

VAT on domestic fuel was initially announced in Norman Lamont's March 1993 budget. He introduced the tax at a starting rate of 8% rate in 1994.

Yes? That's what I said. Domestic gas, domestic electricity. 8% rising to 17.5%.

Why do you think it is capped at 5% today? Because the Labour opposition defeated the Tory policy in a Commons vote, due to John Major's small majority.

 

[Barks]

That fails to list tax cuts which took place and there are some substantial time differences between claims and actions, during which economic conditions can fluctuate or change vastly. It's also irrefutable that Labour have been far worse since 1997 with regards to feeding complete and utter lies to the public. Labour's lies on budgetary prudence, educational standards, support for the Armed Forces, the economic benefits of immigration, a referendum on the European constitution, figures on violent crime, weapons of mass destruction, the abolition of quangos, British jobs for British workers and tackling welfare abuse have since been exposed for what they are: cynical manipulation of credulous voters.

 

[dirtydog]

That fails to list tax cuts which took place and there are some substantial time differences between claims and actions, during which economic conditions can fluctuate or change vastly. It's also irrefutable that Labour have been far worse since 1997 with regards to feeding complete and utter lies to the public. Labour's lies on budgetary prudence, educational standards, support for the Armed Forces, the economic benefits of immigration, a referendum on the European constitution, figures on violent crime, weapons of mass destruction, the abolition of quangos, British jobs for British workers and tackling welfare abuse have since been exposed for what they are: cynical manipulation of credulous voters.

Of course. Which is why I wouldn't vote for either of them again. But people need to be educated about the last Tory government because many here are too young to have been working and paying bills back then.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

Yes? That's what I said. Domestic gas, domestic electricity. 8% rising to 17.5%.

I quoted the wrong person

 

[dirtydog]

Let you off.

 

[Barks]

Of course. Which is why I wouldn't vote for either of them again. But people need to be educated about the last Tory government because many here are too young to have been working and paying bills back then.

I agree but the fact is both parties have changed quite remarkably and seem to be moving towards centre political ground. Is the past really that relevant? Political parties like people make mistakes and can change.

For the record I'm not that old myself and would welcome any unbiased reading suggestions regarding the Thatcher and Major years as my historical knowledge in that area is somewhat limited.

 

[dirtydog]

I agree but the fact is both parties have changed quite remarkably and seem to be moving towards centre political ground. Is the past really that relevant? Political parties like people make mistakes and can change.

Some things never change - the dishonesty and incompetence of politicians being one of them.

 

[Nzyme]

This is the first time i will be voting;

I know i won't be voting labour, they need to be removed from power for their own good.

I don't know if ill vote conservative yet for two reasons; i am not convinced by their economic policy (this is definatly one of the most important factors for me) and secondly because i think Cameron is just another Blair (all smile and no substance).

If i had it my way i'd put myself in charge cause i have no doubt in my mind i could run this country better than every MP put together at the minute.

 

[Dolph]

For me she introduced poll tax the first year I started work. I was earning £28 per week down a chippy (first ever job). My dad was on £62000 per year.

Thatcher decided we both should pay identical tax to the penny 'as it's fairest'. Effectively I was paying about 75-80% tax on my £28 per week. Dad, being rich, naturally got a lot lot richer. Which is of course the cornerstone of conservative thinking (his amazing sudden riches should have inspired me to earn more or something so the theory goes!!)

The tories actually, seriously, stood up in the house and said that this was the fairest form of taxation. I disagree personally. It VERY BADLY directly affected me.

Just out of interest, why do you think you should not have to pay for the services you use?

Council services are either used equally, or by those at the lower end of the income bracket. The level of services used does not increase with income or property value.

Why do you think it is fair that other people should pay for the services you are using?

What is unfair about being asked to pay an equal contribution towards the services provided?

 

[PMKeates]

Dolph, you are knowingly presenting a very fundamental ideological question there, in such a way that makes it a little tricky to answer

So, I shall add:

Why should we not ensure that everyone in society has equal access to the product of the society?

 

[Dolph]

Dolph, you are knowingly presenting a very fundamental ideological question there, in such a way that makes it a little tricky to answer

So, I shall add:

Why should we not ensure that everyone in society has equal access to the product of the society?

What do we define as the product of society? Is it the combined product of individuals, and if so, why should people with different success levels be treated differently? Is it fair to obligate one man to benefit another? That is the real crux, the products of society don't come in isolation, or from the state, but from individuals first and foremost.

I have no issue with the state providing a minimum set of standards for everyone, but they should be provided for all, not just those who fail to provide it for themselves for whatever reason, if they are that fundamental.

 

[eddiemcgarrigle]

SNP. Scottish voting has no impact on the will of middle England and as such, the only real vote in Scotland is for the SNP in order to provide a challenge to the Tories when they take over in Westminster.

 

[dirtydog]

SNP. Scottish voting has no impact on the will of middle England and as such

Of course it does. Often the Scottish vote has decided who governs England. In the past most Scots voted Labour, yet got a Tory government in Westminster. In recent years most English voted Tory, yet got a Labour government.

 

[eddiemcgarrigle]

Of course it does. Often the Scottish vote has decided who governs England. In the past most Scots voted Labour, yet got a Tory government in Westminster. In recent years most English voted Tory, yet got a Labour government.

So where do you get those figures from? The population of Greater London is a million more than here in Scotland but you say that Scotland holds more sway over British politics than the combined population of England and Wales. I disagree.

Do you remember the dark years of Thatcher? The Tory vote in Scotland was almost non-existent (and one year we returned no Tory MP's at all) yet we had to endure several anti-Scottish Tory governments.

 

[dirtydog]

So where do you get those figures from? The population of Greater London is a million more than here in Scotland but you say that Scotland holds more sway over British politics than the combined population of England and Wales. I disagree.

Disagree all you like but you're wrong.

Do you remember the dark years of Thatcher? The Tory vote in Scotland was almost non-existent (and one year we returned no Tory MP's at all) yet we had to endure several anti-Scottish Tory governments.

Yes and I think I acknowledged that.

 

[dirtydog]

I've googled for some evidence, read this link about the 2005 general election...

http://www.makemyvotecount.org.uk/opus19056.html

Labour won 92 more seats than Conservatives in England with slightly over 50,000 less votes.

Read the whole link and then tell me the electoral system isn't thoroughly rotten.