Conservatives want to abolish alcohol units system

Dj_Jestar · 13 Jan 2010 at 14:05

dirtydog said:
Many measurements we use aren't ideal - such as feet, inches, miles, gallons etc. but many of us are more comfortable with those and understand them and what they mean, so we stick with them.

We aren't going to change all our road signs to kilometres just because km is a 'better' measurement than a mile. (I hope)

RE: Roadsigns.. we probably will soon. We said we'd never switch from imperial weighted measurements in the 90s..

Dj_Jestar · 13 Jan 2010 at 14:06

dirtydog said:
This to you is simplifying things? To me it sounds like a maths lesson in school.

Less confusing than "How much is a unit?!"

Glaucus · 13 Jan 2010 at 14:06

dirtydog said:
Many measurements we use aren't ideal - such as feet, inches, miles, gallons etc. but many of us are more comfortable with those and understand them and what they mean, so we stick with them.
)

But unlike that most people don't understand units, very few people do.

As shown in this thread.
Many people also seem to think there's a direct correlation between units and blood alcohol limit.

As said best way would be to have both on the bottle. Production sots on labels are nothing.

Mr. Anderson · 13 Jan 2010 at 14:06

I like units, always have, i go as far as even whacking out my phone to use the calculator to work out if the 'deal' really is a deal.

tbh it isn't rocket science to work out what a unit is, just multiply the quantity in litre form by the %vol of alcohol. i.e. a bottle of 12% wine is 0.75l*12 = 9, therefore I know 2 bottles of it will make me merry. 9-15 and i'm merry 15-25 and i'm quite drunk 25+ i'm steaming

Dj_Jestar · 13 Jan 2010 at 14:07

Kenai said:
Perfect example of how this will only serve to confuse then, because you just got it wrong.

Erroneous 0.. I've made worse typos than that

jakeke · 13 Jan 2010 at 14:08

This seems like a good idea to me. Why wasn't this used at the start?! Why would we make up a system when there was already a good one in place?

Glaucus · 13 Jan 2010 at 14:08

Mr. Anderson said:
I like units, always have, i go as far as even whacking out my phone to use the calculator to work out if the 'deal' really is a deal.

tbh it isn't rocket science to work out what a unit is, just multiply the quantity in litre form by the %vol of alcohol. i.e. a bottle of 12% wine is 0.75l*12 = 9, therefore I know 2 bottles of it will make me merry. 9-15 and i'm merry 15-25 and i'm quite drunk 25+ i'm steaming

But people don't know what a unit is and can't work it out. There is nothing simpler or easier than going 10ml. It would also make your calculations far easier.

12 x10ml compared to 6x25ml or whatever.

platinum87 · 13 Jan 2010 at 14:08

Mr. Anderson said:
I like units, always have, i go as far as even whacking out my phone to use the calculator to work out if the 'deal' really is a deal.

tbh it isn't rocket science to work out what a unit is, just multiply the quantity in litre form by the %vol of alcohol. i.e. a bottle of 12% wine is 0.75l*12 = 9, therefore I know 2 bottles of it will make me merry. 9-15 and i'm merry 15-25 and i'm quite drunk 25+ i'm steaming

be careful 25-30 units is an entire bottle of spirits, someone will be along shortly with a calculator because they have never had a drink in their life to tell you its impossible

Kenai · 13 Jan 2010 at 14:08

Dj_Jestar said:
Less confusing than "How much is a unit?!"

You're missing the point though, that how much a unit actually is, doesn't matter at all.

All that matters is the association of a person as to how much a unit affects them. Change it and all you achieve is removing everyones association and make them learn the same thing from scratch.

RDM · 13 Jan 2010 at 14:09

dirtydog said:
Many measurements we use aren't ideal - such as feet, inches, miles, gallons etc. but many of us are more comfortable with those and understand them and what they mean, so we stick with them.

We aren't going to change all our road signs to kilometres just because km is a 'better' measurement than a mile. (I hope)

Probably a cost thing with roadsigns more than anything. Too many to replace. Other than that feet and inches are starting to go, gallons pretty much already have. Farenheit and lbs are gone already in the main.

The other problem with the unit system is that even people that mostly understand it tend to work on "Pint =2 units, glass of wine, measure of spirts = 1 unit" Which isn't really the case dependant on the strength of the drink.

Dj_Jestar · 13 Jan 2010 at 14:09

Kenai said:
You're missing the point though, that how much a unit actually is, doesn't matter at all.

All that matters is the association of a person as to how much a unit affects them. Change it and all you achieve is removing everyones association and make them learn the same thing from scratch.

And to understand the association of how much a unit affects them, they will need to know "how much is a unit?". Not many do.

Kenai · 13 Jan 2010 at 14:09

Dj_Jestar said:
Erroneous 0.. I've made worse typos than that

You also called it a tenth, suggesting it wasn't merely an accidental extra 0

Kenai · 13 Jan 2010 at 14:10

Dj_Jestar said:
And to understand the association of how much a unit affects them, they will need to know how much is a unit. Not many do.

*bangs head on wall*

No. They. Don't.

The association of the affect comes through learning and experience. I know how I feel after a can of lager that is 2 units. I don't need to know how much 2 units is to make this association.

platypus · 13 Jan 2010 at 14:10

Dj_Jestar said:
And still, so many people just don't know exactly how much a unit is, but will know how much mls/cls are. Not in respect to how drunk it will make them, but because they will all have used litres/millilitres/centilitres at some point in their life.

Thats the beauty of the units system. You don't need to know how much alcohol is in a unit. Or that 1 unit = 8g of alcohol. You just need to know that more then 4 units daily, for men, is not good for you.

Cue cl measurements on bottles. I know that this bottle has say 0.5cl of alcohol in it. So what? The problem with introducing a more specific system is that they have to be more specific with the results - which they can't be in relation to alcohol, because you cannot give a definitive amount that will affect people.

Kenai · 13 Jan 2010 at 14:11

AcidHell2 said:
Many people also seem to think there's a direct correlation between units and blood alcohol limit.

You honestly think the people who say 'yeah the limit is 2 units' wouldn't just say 'yeah the limit is 2cl mate'?

Dj_Jestar · 13 Jan 2010 at 14:11

Kenai said:
You also called it a tenth, suggesting it wasn't merely an accidental extra 0

Oh dear :/ I had it in my head that "centi" is tenth. Oops. :/

Mr. Anderson · 13 Jan 2010 at 14:12

Thing that annoys me the most is the stupidity of the term centilitre. It is just such an un-scientific measure it is unreal. In the science world you have ...., Mega, kilo, normal, milli, micro, .... and so on. cl is purely retarded and if anything the government is trying to persuade people to not drink as much a bigger number will look more scary. Without truly thinking about it 100ml seems more impressive/daunting than 10cl.

Next they will be calling volumes of liquid decilitres *cringe*.

dirtydog · 13 Jan 2010 at 14:12

AcidHell2 said:
Many people also seem to think there's a direct correlation between units and blood alcohol limit.

There is a rough correlation. You know if you drink four units within an hour or two, you are likely to be over the drink drive limit for example.

Dj_Jestar · 13 Jan 2010 at 14:13

platypus said:
Thats the beauty of the units system. You don't need to know how much alcohol is in a unit. Or that 1 unit = 8g of alcohol. You just need to know that more then 4 units daily, for men, is not good for you.

Cue cl measurements on bottles. I know that this bottle has say 0.5cl of alcohol in it. So what?

And you only need to know that more than 4cl of alcohol per day, also for men, is bad for you. What's the problem?

Infact, manufactures can easily get around this problem. Where they have

Units of alchol: 2

replace with

Units/CL of alcohol: 2

Or similar and both parties happy..

Kenai · 13 Jan 2010 at 14:14

Dj_Jestar said:
Oh dear :/ I had it in my head that "centi" is tenth. Oops. :/

Just serving the point that all this will do is confuse people then, you could have killed yourself with your confusion if you tried to measure your alcohol intake in cl