Soldato
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I think you should just elect me as your new overlord. 
Poll: Which party will get your vote in the General Election?
- Thread starter Hatter The Mad
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Given that ultimate responsibility for all state run services, especially for changes and new projects, belongs to politicians, how can it be anyone else's fault?
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The infamous NHS IT project. The National Programme for IT (later renamed Connecting for Health), started with £6bn. Then £9bn. Then £12.4bn. The only people who gained were management and consultancy companies, with comparativley little money being used for any actual implementation.
The latest project lead resigned, the IT systems consultant (Accenture) walked away, citing an ‘unworkable situation’.
By this time, the NHS hired one of the world’s best and most expensive PR firms to manage the PR for the NHS IT project. “We will not be deflected by naysayers.”
National Audit Office: "...it was not demonstrated that the financial value of the benefits exceeds the cost of the Programme"
Officials involved in the programme have been quoted in the media estimating the final cost to be as high as £20bn, indicating a cost overrun of 440% to 770% (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1473927/Bill-for-hi-tech-NHS-soars-to-andpound20-billion.html).
From Wikipedia:
The costs of the venture should have been lessened by the contracts signed by the IT providers making them liable for huge sums of money if they withdrew from the project; however, when Accenture withdrew in September 2006, then Director-General for NPfIT Richard Granger charged them not £1bn, as entitled and as the contract permitted, but just £63m. Granger's first job was with Andersen Consulting, which later became Accenture.
In October 2006, he was suggested by The Sunday Times to be the highest paid Civil Servant, on a basic of £280,000pa - £100,000pa more than former Prime Minister Tony Blair. Granger announced on 16/06/2007 that he would leave the agency "during the latter part" of 2007. Granger finally left the programme in February 2008. Granger's credentials were questioned by his own mother, a campaigner for the preservation of local health services in her area, who expressed her amazement at his appointment, criticising the whole scheme as "a gross waste of money".
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And why? Because Labour hate experts. They despise professionals and field experts, which is why they won't let any civil servant specialise in their area (with their "Career Progression" plan for senior civil servants, which forces rotation about departments after a few years).
Through wilful ignorance, they prefer to shovel hoards of cash to consultancy firms to report on things for inexperienced and ill-advised civil servants. Managers like Granger and other consultants happily obliged when presented with the bottomless budget.
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How on earth can any senior Labour politician claim to be fighting for any regular Brit (rich or poor), when they are career politicians and make up a political class?
They all went to University and made a career out of politics. Cameron and co have at least spent time in the real world - through their success in business, they made their money outside of politics.
I would rather our politicians make their money outside of politics rather than out of politics, like the Labour high command (Blair, Brown, Mandleson, Campbell, Straw, Harman, etc, etc).
This doesn't make them incompetent, good listeners or bad understanders of socioeconomics. You should watch some Cameron Direct events (all of them are unedited and unmoderated) - he has done nearly 60 do date. You can see his empathy, understanding and the relation he is able to hold with 'regular' people attending these town hall meetings.
Ignorance of what? Arrogance where? Got an example?
And you think any other senior politician is different?
Even good ol' John Prescott, flagship of the 'Labour working class' represents the epitamy of a career politician and political class - someone who has made his millions out of politics, and someone who has spent none of his adult life in a real job or in real life outside of studying for politics and then becoming a politician.
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Spoken like an A-level economics student
Not according to the OEDC, who is urging the next Government to follow Ricardian's school.
http://burningourmoney.blogspot.com/2010/01/slow-death-or-amputation.html
The UK's structural fiscal deficit (ie the bit of the deficit that will not automatically correct itself when the recession ends) is the highest in the entire OECD.
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that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard. don't pretend you aren't a racist by sugar coating your decision to side with a fascist party; pathetic.
B@
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Liberal Democrats i think for me this time i'll wait and see for the momment
John Prescott used to work as a ship's steward before entering politics.
Is Hatter working for the Tories? This in particular is hilarious.
David Cameron
1988 - Graduated
1988 -1993 - Worked for Conservative Party
1993 - Applied to be on list of Conservative MPs
1994 - Moved from job of 'Special Adviser' to Director of Carlton Communications
1996 - Selected as candidate for Stafford (lost)
2000 - Selected as candidate for Witney (elected)
2005 - Leader of Tory Party
Oh, and happens to have inherited/married into family wealth in the region of £30m
George Osborne
1994 - Graduated
1994 - 2001 Worked for Conservative Party
2001 - Elected as MP for Tatton, Cheshire
Oh and he just happens to have inherited a trust fund of around £4 million or so.
David Cameron
1988 - Graduated
1988 -1993 - Worked for Conservative Party
1993 - Applied to be on list of Conservative MPs
1994 - Moved from job of 'Special Adviser' to Director of Carlton Communications
1996 - Selected as candidate for Stafford (lost)
2000 - Selected as candidate for Witney (elected)
2005 - Leader of Tory Party
Oh, and happens to have inherited/married into family wealth in the region of £30m
George Osborne
1994 - Graduated
1994 - 2001 Worked for Conservative Party
2001 - Elected as MP for Tatton, Cheshire
Oh and he just happens to have inherited a trust fund of around £4 million or so.
Regarding the NHS IT System...
My dad is one of the Senior Project Managers for this and he has told me why it's taking so long and costing so much.
For starters, the system they have they got from America. Now as most of you know the American health care system is completely different to ours so when they tried to change it to work with our health care system it wasn't having any of it.
Also the Goverment / NHS bosses wanted this system to do more then it could and they kept changing their minds on what they wanted which of course cost time and money.
There are many other reasons, but i don't have the time to explain / remember them all
My dad is one of the Senior Project Managers for this and he has told me why it's taking so long and costing so much.
For starters, the system they have they got from America. Now as most of you know the American health care system is completely different to ours so when they tried to change it to work with our health care system it wasn't having any of it.
Also the Goverment / NHS bosses wanted this system to do more then it could and they kept changing their minds on what they wanted which of course cost time and money.
There are many other reasons, but i don't have the time to explain / remember them all
It's amazing what people would do to avoid national service...
There are too many career politicians on all sides of parliament. The recent expenses thing worries me too as it may lead to even more as only the rich will be able to afford to be MPs.
As for Labour playing the "Class" card, it didn't seem to work in Crewe very well and the Labour front bench aren't exactly all working class themselves. Quite a few private school boys there too.
As for Labour playing the "Class" card, it didn't seem to work in Crewe very well and the Labour front bench aren't exactly all working class themselves. Quite a few private school boys there too.
It's so much better if both sides actually judge the candidates on their actions and words rather than their backgrounds or how much money they have. (Yes, I'm fully aware where this line of discussion came from, it applies across the board).
On that basis, we only have to look around the country for Gordon's record...
You do remember what happened the last time the Tories gave specific actions (in the run up to Brown's aborted October election)? Suddenly they became Labour policies when they went down well...
Until the actual election is announced, keeping policies close to the chest makes sense when you have opponents who have shown they have no principles already....
I would accuse Labour of abandoning their principles, but they did that for power back in 1997...
Stealing conservative policies is now a labour policy. It's just a shame the one policy they didn't steal was economic responsibility...
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Rich_L,
I didn't say that no one in the Conservative party was a career politician. LibLabCon make up the political class, but not equally so - Labour has more career MPs than the Conservatives do, who are traditionally business men, doctors, academics, etc. Lib Dem high command appear to have the least, fyi.
I'm actually quantifying the backgrounds of the cabinet and shadow cabinet for a blog post (for politic.co.uk, presenting the case that the reason why most of Labour is so scared of a class war is because they do not wish to draw attention to their backgrounds, almost entirely career politica - and that they in fact represent no one. Not the rich, not the poor, not the middle class - just themselves).
You are right about Os, though.
I didn't say that no one in the Conservative party was a career politician. LibLabCon make up the political class, but not equally so - Labour has more career MPs than the Conservatives do, who are traditionally business men, doctors, academics, etc. Lib Dem high command appear to have the least, fyi.
I'm actually quantifying the backgrounds of the cabinet and shadow cabinet for a blog post (for politic.co.uk, presenting the case that the reason why most of Labour is so scared of a class war is because they do not wish to draw attention to their backgrounds, almost entirely career politica - and that they in fact represent no one. Not the rich, not the poor, not the middle class - just themselves).
Wikipedia said:
You are right about Os, though.
What is your point? You sound envious, which is sad.
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So what have the NuTories done then?
NHS, NHS, NHS wasn't it?
The point is, George Osborne certainly did not 'make his money in business'. He worked as a data clerk and in Selfridge for a couple months after graduating, failed to get a job as a journalist, joined the Conservative Party and has been there ever since. His 'money' has come largely from his very wealthy aristocratic family. Likewise David Cameron did not 'make his money' in business, the vast majority of his fortune is a product of his own inheritance and his wife's inherited fortune.
Whilst the idea of people living in the 'real' world is a misnomer, any part is 'real', the idea that Cameron, Osborne et al have lived a life anywhere approximating your average man on the street, or even your average successful business owner, is simply untrue.
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