Poll: Which party will get your vote in the General Election?

[Hatter The Mad]

Simple maths ..

The loaf of bread mr ***** buys weekly has gone up 5%. It now costs £1.05

The big yummy cake I buy instead of bread each week has gone up 5%. It now costs £5.50

Therefore the 5% inflation has cost me 50p, him 5p.

You said "more stuff", not "more expensive stuff", and in your example the inflation rate is the same for Mr *****'s bread as it is for your cake - 5%.

 

[Dolph]

Indeed we've had 5 enquiries now -- which cost YOU AND ME millions of pounds each.

The same faces pop up, say exactly the same thing, answer the same slightly reworded questions with the same answers, yet again -- and at the end some old bloke produces a 1200 page report which has no new information. Yet Again.

We should have had 1. Job done. But of course the tories forced 5 because it makes 'Joe Uneducated' think the government has got something to hide and isn't it terrible they really have to dig to the bottom of it all'.. without thinking ACTUALLY 'These conservatives are costing us a BOMB for their own political gain by forcing more and more rehashing of enquiries'.



Whats the betting when this one finishes, David Cameron will demand review number 6 to 'finally unveil the truth'? At the good ol' tax payer's expense of course yippee! And sadly people will actually vote for him because Iraq must have been .. er .. even worse to demand 6 reviews when will the government stop lying eh??!

This world is a slimy place ..

If the first inquiry had been conducted correctly, in an open, honest and public fashion, then the rest of them would not have been necessary...

 

[britboy4321]

No. The cost would barely broken a quid each, not millions. Even the bank bailouts didn't cost us millions each. Jesus, where do you get your figures from?


You're very naive, then. No wonder you're a Labour supporter - you accept everything they say, taking it as red.

yes the word 'each' was a typo (obviously).

Same as 'taking is as red'.

Calm down dear ..

 

[britboy4321]

You said "more stuff", not "more expensive stuff", and in your example the inflation rate is the same for Mr *****'s bread as it is for your cake - 5%.

OK replace 'cake' with '5 loaves of bread because I'm fat'.

Remember, as I said, we are talking about the bottom line .. the bottom line is that the rich have a bigger absolute figure down the plughole than the poorer.

 

[britboy4321]

If the first enquiry had been conducted correctly, in an open, honest and public fashion, then the rest of them would not have been necessary...

Aaah and there is the tory wonder-machine influencing young voters minds.

Well Dolph .. I've got a funny suspicion the Tories won't be happy with the Iraq conclusions until after the election, regardless of cost to the taxpayer.

4 Enquiries so far -- independent -- with the best minds we can find put on them. Millions spent on them. But we 'Haven't quite got it right yet' say the tories. Come on! It's not even the dirty politics I object to -- its the massive waste of public money caused by the party who HATE wasting public money (Just basically for the lolz at public confidence in Labour). If I didn't laugh, I'd cry.

 

[dirtydog]

Aaah and there is the tory wonder-machine influencing young voters minds.

Well Dolph .. I've got a funny suspicion the Tories won't be happy with the Iraq conclusions until after the election, regardless of cost to the taxpayer.

4 Enquiries so far -- independent -- with the best minds we can find put on them. Millions spent on them. But we 'Haven't quite got it right yet' say the tories. Come on! It's not even the dirty politics I object to -- its the massive waste of public money caused by the party who HATE wasting public money (Just basically for the lolz at public confidence in Labour). If I didn't laugh, I'd cry.

The other Iraq inquiries were nothing short of a disgrace. The current one is little better, as the questioning is very non-confrontational and those giving evidence are not under oath!

TBH if you are representative of the public then no wonder this country is in such a mess.

 

[Dolph]

Aaah and there is the tory wonder-machine influencing young voters minds.

Poisoning the well? Do you believe that helps your debate be more convincing?

Well Dolph .. I've got a funny suspicion the Tories won't be happy with the Iraq conclusions until after the election, regardless of cost to the taxpayer.

And I'm sure Brown didn't deliberately try to hold the inquiry in private and have it present it's results after the election inititally. (source). Only backlash from the public and his own party changed this.

4 Enquiries so far -- independent -- with the best minds we can find put on them. Millions spent on them. But we 'Haven't quite got it right yet' say the tories. Come on! It's not even the dirty politics I object to -- its the massive waste of public money caused by the party who HATE wasting public money (Just basically for the lolz at public confidence in Labour). If I didn't laugh, I'd cry.

There has never been a full inquiry, there have been several attempts at small scale, highly limited and fundamentally pointless enquiries as an alternative to letting all the information out into the public domain.

As I said, a fully open, honest and impartial enquiry from the start (And even now there are some doubts about impartiality due to the selection method of those involved) would have prevented the ongoing issues... That is the government's failure for not doing it, not everyone else's for criticising them for not doing it.

 

[britboy4321]

TBH if you are representative of the public then no wonder this country is in such a mess.

there was no need for personal insult. Especially not a rubbish one like this. See me after school, must try harder.

 

[britboy4321]

And I'm sure Brown didn't deliberately try to hold the enquiry in private and have it present it's results after the election inititally.

The reality is that they had 4 enquiries with results released before the election. FOUR!!!

Then of course the tories said 'We want another enquiry - the tax payer can cop the bill yet again'.

Labour said 'Well, to make it as complete as you want it to be, you're not going to get the results until after the election as the INDEPENDENT PEOPLE DOING IT says they literally won't have time bearing in mind how comprehensive you want 'enquiry number 5''

Tories run straight to the papers 'EVIL BROWN DELAYING IRAQ ENQUIRY RESULTS UNTIL AFTER ELECTION ...'

!

Don't you see --- you're being played ..

 

[Dolph]

The reality is that they had 4 enquiries with results released before the election.

Then of course the tories said 'We want another enquiry'.

Labour said 'Well, to make it as complete as you want it to be, you're not going to get the results until after the election as the INDEPENDENT PEOPLE DOING IT says they literally won't have time bearing in mind how comprehensive you want it'

Tories run straight to the papers 'EVIL BROWN DELAYING RESULTS UNTIL AFTER ELECTION ...'

!

Don't you see --- you're being played ..

I really wish this post was ironic...

Are you arguing that the previous inquiries were open, complete, and not limited in scope?

Are you arguing that up until the end, Brown has done everything he can to try and keep the inquiry meeting in secret?

Are you therefore suggesting that it would have been either impossible or unnecessary to conduct the inquiry sooner than it has been?

 

[britboy4321]

I really wish this post was ironic...

Are you arguing that the previous inquiries were open, complete, and not limited in scope?

Are you arguing that up until the end, Brown has done everything he can to try and keep the inquiry meeting in secret?

Are you therefore suggesting that it would have been either impossible or unnecessary to conduct the inquiry sooner than it has been?

I'm not talking about the previous enquiries at all I'm talking about this enquiry. Stop changing the subject. Do you now understand how the tories have played you (and other voters) on the whole 'Iraq enquiry results only after election, says evil Brown' debacle?

It's politics, it's dirty, it's tax payers money, and it's the tories. Yet Brown unbelievably got a black eye over his 'want yet another enquiry now? Okay -- INDEPENDENTS TELL ME the results have to be after the election then' comment as Cameron sniggered into his pint. Awful. You still don't even believe it... it's dirty politics basically - the man in the street doesn't understand it Which Cameron knows all too well ..

 

[dirtydog]

Don't you see --- you're being played ..

I'm honestly wondering if you are just having a laugh now; you are, right?

 

[britboy4321]

I'm honestly wondering if you are just having a laugh now; you are, right?

Your arguing style is naff. You may as well retort 'well you're a stinky head'

 

[Dolph]

I'm not talking about the previous enquiries at all I'm talking about this enquiry. Stop changing the subject. Do you now understand how the tories have played you (and other voters) on the whole 'Iraq enquiry results only after election, says Brown' debacle?

What? You have said several times that this inquiry is a waste of money because there have been previous ones...

The reality is that they had 4 enquiries with results released before the election. FOUR!!!

4 Enquiries so far -- independent -- with the best minds we can find put on them. Millions spent on them. But we 'Haven't quite got it right yet' say the tories. Come on! It's not even the dirty politics I object to -- its the massive waste of public money caused by the party who HATE wasting public money (Just basically for the lolz at public confidence in Labour). If I didn't laugh, I'd cry.

Indeed we've had 5 enquiries now -- which cost YOU AND ME millions of pounds each.

The same faces pop up, say exactly the same thing, answer the same slightly reworded questions with the same answers, yet again -- and at the end some old bloke produces a 1200 page report which has no new information. Yet Again.

Clearly you have been talking about the previous inquiries and how they relate to this one, so again, that brings us to the question:

Do you think that the previous inquiries, on their own, or as a group, entail a complete, open, honest and thorough investigation into the choice of Blair and co to take us into war?

It's politics, it's dirty, it's tax payers money, and it's the tories. Yet Brown unbelievably got a black eye over his 'want yet another enquiry now? Okay -- results have to be after the election then' comment as Cameron sniggered into his pint. Awful. You still don't even believe it...

Pointing out the failings of the administration, especially when the public want answers, is not dirty politics or a failure. Refusal to acknowledge or address those complaints, however...

You appear to believe that I have the same irrationally supportive view of the Tories that you have of Labour, I'm not that deluded.

 

[Glaucus]

Your arguing style is naff.

So is yours. Being played WTF.

The inquire is not under oath as well as other questionable aspects. Regardless how many inquires there has been before. Cameron has a big point. It is not about being played. We have had 7 years for the inquiry and it still has not happened.

 

[britboy4321]

I am debating 1 point. 1 thing at the moment. Just 1 thing. The fact Gordon Brown was painted as evil by the tories because of the 5th enquiry's estimated conclusion date.

THIS IS THE LAST TIME I WILL EXPLAIN THIS.

What actually happened:

David Cameron demanded an enquiry of such scale, that he knew, everyone knew, the results would have to be after the elections. Brown agreed (if he hadn't .. yet again .. 'evil Brown') and said 'The independent people in the know say the results for what you want will have to be after the election due to time constraints' and then Cameron phoned the papers and said 'Evil Brown says apparently we're not allowed to know the Iraq results until after the election'. Because people are thick Brown actually got a black-eye over it -- people ON THIS FORUM including Dolph thought Brown was awful for saying 'results after the election'. he still doesn't understand what the tories did - and this is just a simple political game ...

I can not explain it any simpler. I just can't. I've explained it 5 times and you still probably don't get it -- which is, of course, what Cameron was relying on. I give up.

 

[Dolph]

I am debating 1 point. 1 thing at the moment. Just 1 thing. The fact Gordon Brown was painted as evil by the tories because of the 5th enquiries estimated conclusion date.

THIS IS THE LAST TIME I WILL EXPLAIN THIS.

What actually happened:

David Cameron demanded an enquiry of such scale, that he knew, everyone knew, the results would have to be after the elections. Brown agreed and said 'The independent people in the know say the results for what you want will have to be after the election due to time constraints' and then Cameron phoned the papers and said 'Evil Brown says apparently we're not allowed to know the Iraq results until after the election'. Because people are thick Brown actually got a black-eye over it -- people ON THIS FORUM including Dolph thought Brown was awful for saying 'results after the election'. he still doesn't understand what the tories did.

I can not explain it any simpler. I just can't. I've explained it 5 times and you still probably don't get it -- which is, of course, what Cameron was relying on. I give up.

So, like I said, you're blaming the conservatives for supporting the public requests for an inquiry, and ignoring the fact that the only reason it has taken so long is because of Labour.

There was a reason why the inquiry is only taking place now, it is NOT because the requests have only just started...

If I hadn't seen how you've irrationally defended Labour throughout this thread, shown a complete lack of understanding on fundamentally simple concepts, and continually ad hom'd the Tories, I'd be worried about how you reached your conclusions.

As it is, I'm safe in the knowledge that there is little benefit in trying to engage you in debate (apart from to ensure that your random statements don't go unchallenged), because I cannot reason someone out of a position they didn't reach in a reasonable fashion in the first place.

 

[britboy4321]

There was a reason why the inquiry is only taking place now, it is NOT because the requests have only just started...
.

Help me ...

I am not talking about why the enquiry started now that's a different subject we'll do afterwards if you want .. I am presently talking about how Cameron played people like you into thinking Brown was awful for saying 'No Iraq results allowed until after the election just in case it saysa something bad' after Cameron had in reality demanded an enquiry that could ONLY reasonably take until after the election! And you believed his 'Ain't Brown Evil holding the results from us until after the election' story hook line and sinker.

STOP TRYING TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT! Can you not debate what I actually write? Can you at least acknowledge you, on this point at least, have been played by the tory publicity machine? I've explained why, how, the whole shebang!


(ps. You won't understand this -- but thought I'd write it anyways ... It's the ultimate stain on the conservatives that in the end Gordon Brown had to make the enquiry LESS COMPLETE to finish it before the election to get the tory induced 'Brown says you're not allowed to see it before you vote' scandal off his back.. So the conservatives hand-crafting a massive stinky mess around Brown meant the public gets LESS of a thorough Iraq report then they otherwise would have, as suddenly it has to be rushed through before the election. Which means, when you think about it, the conservatives took 'the public hating Brown' as more important to their party than 'The public needs a thorough a report as possible done about Iraq even if it takes until after the election'. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a disgrace for anyone that actually understands how it played out .. but Cameron knows <1% of people will even understand what I have just said Horrible .. )

 

[Dolph]

Help me ...

I am not talking about why the enquiry started now that's a different subject we'll do afterwards if you want .. I am presently talking about how Cameron played people like you into thinking Brown was awful for saying 'no Iraq results allowed until after the election' after Cameron had demanded an enquiry that could ONLY reasonably take until after the election! And you believed his 'Ain't Brown Evil' story hook line and sinker.

STOP TRYING TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT! Can you not debate what I actually write? Can you at least acknowledge you, on this point at least, have been played by the tory publicity machine? I've explained why, how, the whole shebang!

Debating what you actually write when you deliberately clip 99% of the history and claim it is all irrelevant makes no sense. You are committing a fallacy known as causal oversimplification, and wonder why I won't engage the fallacious argument.

 

[britboy4321]

Debating what you actually write when you deliberately clip 99% of the history and claim it is all irrelevant makes no sense. You are committing a fallacy known as causal oversimplification, and wonder why I won't engage the fallacious argument.

It's too complex I don't really understand what you're saying so won't respond to it -- could you try again?
It's too complex I don't really understand what you're saying so won't respond to it -- could you try again?
It's too complex I don't really understand what you're saying so won't respond to it -- could you try again?
It's too complex I don't really understand what you're saying so won't respond to it -- could you try again?
It's too complex I don't really understand what you're saying so won't respond to it -- could you try again?
What you are saying is just too simple. Therefore .. er .. I don't want to talk about it.



:\

Funnily enough you've totally blind-sided me with the 'actually, I've now decided it's too simple to talk about' bit. I'm absolutely stumped. Can't think of anything to say!