£600 Gaming Rig

The first reason why I chose PhII 955 was the future proofing thing but I think Wayne is right and an Athlon II is good enough.The RAM would have worked fine with AM3 I just built a pc recently with AM3 and OCZ Gold 4GB Core i5 Optimized version and it worked just fine
Hello Ast3r,

nice work again, I'd just like to point out that Athlon II/Phenom II really wants low latency RAM to become *really* special! . . . . DDR3-1333 Cas9 is not great, 13.5ns is like a computer from 3-4 years ago . . . . if you can work it in to peoples specs aim for as near to 10.0ns as you can!

People will love you for it! :cool:


  • DDR3-1333 CAS 9 13.5 ns Dual (128-bit) 10,664 MB/s
  • DDR3-1333 CAS 8 12.0 ns Dual (128-bit) 10,664 MB/s
  • DDR3-1333 CAS 7 10.5 ns Dual (128-bit) 10,664 MB/s


  • DDR3-1600 CAS 9 11.3 ns Dual (128-bit) 12,800 MB/s
  • DDR3-1600 CAS 8 10.0 ns Dual (128-bit) 12,800 MB/s
    [*]
    DDR3-1600 CAS 7 8.80 ns Dual (128-bit) 12,800 MB/s
 
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Further info please read: 4P

P.S: Just needs a Hard-drive added!
 
Really like your spec Big Wayne, was just working on something very similar but trying to fit a SSD in.

Drop to a standard 5770, change case to a Coolermaster Elite 335 and you can just about get one in.

The 620 chip is hugely under-rated on these forums and is an extremely capable chip.
 
there is the antec 300

Very good case indeed! . . . for the money it offeres tremendous value! :eek: . . . . it may not be to everyones personal aesthetic choice
but as a piece of hardware designed to achieve a task it excels! :)

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*Positive* air pressure for 2010! :cool:
 
Really like your spec Big Wayne, was just working on something very similar but trying to fit a SSD in
Thank you very much Yewen! :)

Drop to a standard 5770, change case to a Coolermaster Elite 335 and you can just about get one in.
I did try a few builds using that Coolmaster case, pretty good for the money but the sheet metal it is made from is a bit flimsy/Flexiible compared to the Antec 300 . . . . if its not gonna be moved around then theres not a big difference but the little 300 provides a safer structure for Lan Party type builds and offers superior Air-Flow prospects for the overclockers and particularly for a Crossfire set-up . . .with two 120mm fans instakes and an optional 3rd 120mm fan on the case side panel I know the graphics cards will turn into ice-cubes! :p

The 620 chip is hugely under-rated on these forums and is an extremely capable chip.
I'm working on raising the profile of the Propus Technology!

P.S BTW Yewen, please can you get some Athlon II X3's in, have faith they will sell like hotcakes!



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Haha love it!

X3 chips are never massive movers but will have a word with Fatboy. :)

Elite 335 is our case of choice for shipping systems in, it actually survives being handled by a courrier better than any other case we sell or have ever sold!

If you are looking after your system it becomes a mute point, but for us shipping the Elite is a brilliant little box.
 
Quixote,
same for you please . . . The Athlon II is more than good enough for gaming! especially at high res, it sometimes beats an Intel Core i7, trust me on that! :)

If your a competitive benchmarker, or if you want 120FPS instead of 100FPs then maybe you have a good case but please spend two hours reading all the new reviews on Athlon II, it's a perfect match for most peoples needs . . .

Gaming rig should have every spare penny channelled towards the GPU!. I ganing with a an Athlon II X3 overclocked to 3.6GHz and it laughs at everything, no problems at all . . .

Well IF the price difference between the 2 chips would let him step up to a 5850, then it might be worth it but it isn't.
However, the OP specifically mentioned they wanted this PC to last a while; realistically many gaming PCs see a drop-in graphics card upgrade at some point in their lives - the Phenom will be well suited to a longer stand of duty alongside a graphics upgrade & the price premium is not too great.
Don't forget that the 955 is 0.6GHZ faster for single threaded operations which speed up everything, gaming or otherwise.
Don't get me wrong, the 620 is a great chip, i very nearly got one myself but I think it's better suited to a slightly cheaper build.
Finally, of course your CPU is fast enough for every game, you've overclocked it by 1GHZ ! But we haven't brought Ocing into the discussion yet.
 
Haha love it!

X3 chips are never massive movers but will have a word with Fatboy. :)

Elite 335 is our case of choice for shipping systems in, it actually survives being handled by a courrier better than any other case we sell or have ever sold!

If you are looking after your system it becomes a mute point, but for us shipping the Elite is a brilliant little box.

I'm pretty sure they will sold out well considering you can get a decent price for the 425 or 435.

They will compete great against e5400/7400 and even e8400 range.

I mean common, a decent performing 3.6-3.8ghz tri core (or quad if you manage to unlock) for 50-60quid? You really can't beat this. I'd buy one !

People go crazy about i7s and stuff but to be honest, as Wayne said too before, you can run any game just fine with 3-3.2ghz+ dual as long as your GPU is up to task.

And you're unlikely to see difference between 80-90 and 100fps in real world, anything above 50-60 is super smooth already.
 
Heya Cat,

while you right that L3 cache helps in *some* games it makes no difference at all in others, on top of that if it doesn't unlock your stuck with a dual core. The Athlon II X4 is a superb processor for someone who games in the *Real-World* and cannot tell the difference between 165FPS and 150FPS :p

Gaming technology is one of the most advanced in the world for consumers now, they have great multi-core support, I'll take four real cores over 6MB L3 cache every single day! :)

For gaming I would think that the X3 435 would be a better choice over an X4 620 as it has a higher base clock which would help for games:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=106&p2=112

It is sad that OcUK are not stocking them!!

If OcUk could also get some of the cheaper 770 motherboards in like the AM2+ and AM3 versions of the MSI 770-C45 it would be worth it!!

The X2 550BE is a very good processor and has an unlocked multiplier making relatively it easy to attempt an overclock.

OTH,overclocking and core unlocking are not guaranteed but if the X4 620 could be overclocked to around 3GHZ I think this should help negate the L3 cache advantage the X2 550BE has in games.
 
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Haha love it!
:D

X3 chips are never massive movers but will have a word with Fatboy. :)
A Phenom II X3 is a totally different price point to an Athlon II X3 . . . . The AIIX3 will sell . . . lots!!!!!! . . . . but your gonna have to use your economy of scales buying power to make any profit!

Elite 335 is our case of choice for shipping systems in, it actually survives being handled by a courrier better than any other case we sell or have ever sold!
I see . . . .

If you are looking after your system it becomes a mute point, but for us shipping the Elite is a brilliant little box.
Ahhhhh you have called something I said a moot point! :eek:

Right, roll your sleeves up son . . . lets be having ya! :p


Coolermaster Elite 335 vs Antec 300 Three Hundred

A mini analysis by Big.Wayne, Overclocker, System Builder 15 years, Anal Retentive Obsessive Compulsive, Logical Debater and Shaman of the Bang-for-buck tribe!

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Hello to anyone that is reading, this is a totally spontaneous post generated on the fly to discuss the differences between the two budget cases both of which I have used and offer this personal insight to help anyone looking to put together a nice value gaming/overclocked system . . .

The good news is that these days a little money can go a long way, back when I started system building in 1995 all you had were rubbish beige boxes, mostly horizontal desktop slabs with an approximate price tag of £60! :o

Fast forward 15 years to the present day and Nu-School system builders have never had it so good, plenty of good options and you get a choice of colour too! :D

Since the Credit Crunch slowly but surely started driving down peoples disposable incomes the Bang-For-Buck ethos has slowly started to resurface. My own small business started taking a dive about two years ago as the steady stream of customers I had with £1500 for a bespoke hand built system started drying up so I was forced to compete on price along with everyone else.

One of the things I was always able to save money on was the Chassis and PSU by choosing one of several combos from ANTEC and got a taste early on for their simple, no nonsense cases that incorporated a number of builder-friendly features that really stuck out to me as I had used a number of really inferior cases in the past (and I've got the scars to prove it).

So here we are today, your a system builder wanting to construct a nice value gaming machine and you have come down to the choice between these two cases

  • Coolermaster Elite 335 @ £31.67
  • Antec 300 Three Hundred @ £42.99
Straight away the Coolermaster case comes out fighting with a 35% cheaper selling price, very nice although 35% at this price-point equates to a £11.32 saving! . . . not a fortune by any means but if your counting the pennies then every little helps! . . . . Having said that as much as I relish slashing budgets and choosing great bang-for-buck kit sometimes paying less is a false economy as the design and quality can suffer too much . . .

Things that are good about the Coolmaster
  • It doesn't cost much
  • It's looks may appeal (subjective & YMMV)
  • It has a 120mm Blue LED fan included as standard
  • Nothing else

Things that are bad about the Coolmaster

  • It is constructed from thin/flimsy metal
  • It is not Thermally Advantaged
  • It still houses the PSU at the top of the system
  • It offers only a single 120mm intake (which is mostly obstructed)
  • It offers no easy clean intake Fan Filter
  • It offers no Roof fan
  • It offers an 80mm side fan instead of a 120mm side fan
  • The quick-fit drive holders are flimsy and can break

Having the PSU situated at the top of the case is a very old and bad design, the PSU sits a few inches away from the CPU heatsink and all the heat from the system rises and gets sucked into it, this is a problem because:

  1. The Hotter a PSU runs the faster its internal fan has to run and the noisey it becomes
  2. The Hotter a PSU runs the quicker it will die, yes thats right its lifespan will be reduced if it lives at the top of the hot stuffy case

I've marked the trouble spots with this case with Red Crosses in the image below . . .

coolermasterelite335.jpg


Now please don't get me wrong, for a very basic and simple web-surfing machine I'm sure there is a place for the Coolermaster but from personal experience with it I can hand-on-heart say if your someone who cares about giving your precious hardware a long life and you want a powerful but quiet system then avoid the Coolermaster Elite 335, especially if your gonna be overclocking and running a powerful graphics card!

For just an extra £11.32 you have the option of building your new gaming machine in the Antec 300

Things that are good about the Antec 300

  • It doesn't cost much
  • It's looks may appeal (subjective & YMMV)
  • It is a Thermally Advantage chassis
  • It offers two 120mm intakes
  • It offers a quick release and easy to clean front fan filter
  • It houses the PSU at the bottom of the system
  • It comes with a 140mm Roof fan to suck away system heat
  • It offers a 120mm side fan for those using a Crossfire setup
  • It is constructed from fairly robust metal which doesn't bend
  • It offers a ton of Thumbscrews for quick fixing your hard drives and expansion cards

Things that are bad about the Antec 300

  • It's a little more expensive than the Coolermaster
  • Not much else!

The Antec 300 really is a great piece of kit, I've used it for dozens of builds and never had a single complaint, it's even happy keeping an overclocked Intel Core i7 nice and cool. The Modern Thermally Advantaged design really makes a lot of sense, firstly moving the PSU to the lower portion of the case achieves Three things

  1. The PSU will run cooler and last longer
  2. The PSU will run quieter
  3. The CPU/Heatsink has improved airflow

antec300.jpg


The airflow provided by the Thermally advantaged design is so good that I have been able to build and run a number of overclocked system with no fan at all on the heatsink, basically just running *passive* which is neat. The airflow is waaaay superior especially if your running two front 120mm intakes for a *Positive* pressure set-up! . . . .The beauty of Postive Air-pressure vs Negative Air-pressure is you get to choose how the air enters your system rather than it just being sucked in from anywhere. As the Antec 300's front intakes are filtered any dust gets trapped right there and doesn't end up getting clogged up in the heatsink of your CPU or graphics card, this is great for someone like me because it cuts down on the amount of servicing I have to do on clients PC's, I've even cheekily shown them how to remove the filter for cleaning. Dust is not the friend of a modern computer, it will slowly but surely becomes a solid substance that will clog fans and any moving parts and eventually can damage your PC . . . take note!

There is plenty of space inside to work, there is an area to store excessive cables, there really is nothing bad to say about this case? . . . If I was too dig deep I would say one or two people mistake the power button with the CD eject button as they are situated close together, not a biggy but that's about all I can think of! :p

Conclusion:

If you totally strapped for cash and are only building a really, really simple system and you love the way the Coolermaster Elite 335 looks then buy it, compared to the old beige boxes from the 90's its night and day better . . . . however if you building a more powerful system, particularly one that is going to be overclocked and teamed up with a powerful graphics card then the Antec 300 is waiting . . . for an extra £11.32 price premium it offers waaay superior system cooling and will without a doubt increase the lifespan of your precious hardware and do so in relative silence if teamed up with one or two extra quiet 120mm fans.

I have written this mini review for you, my fellow community members as I want the best for you, everything I've learned I've had to learn the hard way from experience . . . A computer chassis is one of those things that tends not to get changed that often (along with PSU) so it makes sense to really make sure you get it right first time . . .

At this time of writing the Antec 300 is easily one of the best bang-for-buck cases on Planet Earth, it offers almost every feature one could want and does so without breaking the bank . .

Thanks for reading! :cool:

Antec 300 Official Product Page

Coolermaster Elite 335 Official Product page
 
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overclocking and core unlocking are not guaranteed but if the X4 620 could be overclocked to around 3GHZ I think this should help negate the L3 cache advantage the X2 550BE has in games.
Hey Cat,

I'm convinced that every single Athlon II X4 620 (2.6GHz) will overclock to 3.0GHz with minimum effort, using the stock cooler and 100% stable. I will personally walk anyone through the two or three simple BIOS adjustments to acheve this!

If I was being optimistic I would predict that most chips will hit 3.25GHz without much trouble . . . the really good chips will stretch to 3.6GHz and higher but may require 3rd party cooling and some advanced clocking knowledge! :cool:
 
I got 2x Phenom II 550BEs at Christmas. Both unlocked to 4 cores and are OCed ok, absolute bargain with a quick clock speed and low power draw to start with.

Dave
 
Well IF the price difference between the 2 chips would let him step up to a 5850, then it might be worth it but it isn't
There is a substantial price difference between the PhIIX4 955 and the AIIX4620 depending where you shop! :p

The performance advantage between the two is negligible in the *Real-World*

However, the OP specifically mentioned they wanted this PC to last a while; realistically many gaming PCs see a drop-in graphics card upgrade at some point in their lives - the Phenom will be well suited to a longer stand of duty alongside a graphics upgrade & the price premium is not too great
Sometimes you gotta read between the lines, Cosmicolor (OP) is new and isn't entirely sure what he wants, he needs guidance and reassurance to get his first build right. Although he has said he can spend a max of £600 that doesn't mean we have to spec him a £600 system, I'm sure he would be very happy if we could give him everything what he wants and still leave him £100 under budget, it's a nice warm fuzzy feeling!

The AMD golden goose is laying newer and better AM2+/AM3 chips by the minute so its not good to buy the top end right now as they are being outmoded by the day. He is building the system himself and will not have a problem removing a chip in 12months and popping in a budget sex-core

The difference in our strategy is that your way he gets one good chip, my way still gets one good chip but saves maybe £50 which can be used to buy something else or put towards an SSD . . .

Don't forget that the 955 is 0.6GHZ faster for single threaded operations which speed up everything, gaming or otherwise

I don't believe that is the truth, at least not something that will provide value for the premium being paid, check out these results, the AIIX4620 (2.6GHz) is actually faster than even the Phenom II X4 965 (3.4GHz) in some games let alone the slower PhIIX4 955 . . .

the Propus core is a lot newer then the Deneb, go figure . . .

AMD Athlon II X4 620 Quad Core Processor Review
Overclockers Club

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More results please read this thread: 4p


Don't get me wrong, the 620 is a great chip, i very nearly got one myself but I think it's better suited to a slightly cheaper build

I take it your a happy PhII owner! :)

I'm not sure where your getting your info from? . . .the viewpoint you are projecting makes the Propus quad sound slow? . . . laggy? . . . basically not desirable :confused:

The truth is it will blow Cosmicolor away, it offers him a very cost effective platform and he is not gonna notice the extra performance from having the 6MB of level 3 cache *unless* he is a benchmarker . . .

Please understand I'm not critising you in anyway my fellow AMD brother but you have been a little bit brainwashed by looking at the benchmarks and your sujectivity has been distorted somewhat . . .

I'm confident we could even give Cosmicolor a dual core AIIX2 chip and he would still be blown away in useage unless he is encoding videos daily and standing there with a stop-watch! ;)

Finally, of course your CPU is fast enough for every game, you've overclocked it by 1GHZ ! But we haven't brought Ocing into the discussion yet.
Your quite right, however even at stock 2.6GHz the Propus Quad-Core seems to be very happy playing games, actually beating the PhII965 @1920x1200 in Far-Cry 2 and Call of Duty World At War!

What is going on here! :p:cool:
 
I got 2x Phenom II 550BEs at Christmas. Both unlocked to 4 cores and are OCed ok, absolute bargain with a quick clock speed and low power draw to start with.
Awesome! :)

Your very lucky, there are a few people who couldn't unlock theirs so the gods must love you! :cool:
 
Sorry for the thread hi-jack...

Hey big wayne, thanks for the comparisons of those two cases.

I've actually got a coolermaster 300 which seems to be the same case as the 330, just with a slightly different fascia. Not sure if you would be able to answer this, but do you think I would notice much of a temperature drop on my cpu going to the antec?

I'm able to unlock my cpu to a quad but it runs at around 60-61, which is too close to the maximum temp apparently. I was planning on just getting an aftermarket cooler for around 30 quid, but since reading your post i've started to think that my case probably isn't ideal for my system.

I know that changing case isn't going to drop my temps by as much as changing the cooler, but if it were to drop the temps by even 5 degrees I would be happy!

Cheers, borgia.
 
Hey big wayne, thanks for the comparisons of those two cases.
Your welcome! :)

but do you think I would notice much of a temperature drop on my cpu going to the antec?
Yup! :eek:

How can it not run cooler with a 140mm fan and a 120mm fan removing the heat pronto!

I'm able to unlock my cpu to a quad but it runs at around 60-61, which is too close to the maximum temp apparently. I was planning on just getting an aftermarket cooler for around 30 quid, but since reading your post i've started to think that my case probably isn't ideal for my system
You gotta have a thermally advantaged chassis for a powerful system, especially if your overclocking.

It's a waste spending money on a 3rd party cooler in a non thermally advantaged chassis like that, the premium cooler just can't work properly if its in a cramp/hot enviroment!

I know that changing case isn't going to drop my temps by as much as changing the cooler, but if it were to drop the temps by even 5 degrees I would be happy!
I'd say you will see about an average 10°C drop! . . . probably more if you get good fans on the front and keep the airflow path clean (cable tidy etc) :cool:
 
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i didn't expect this thread to get so informative - so much to take in lol and because of that it has kinda gotten a bit more difficult for me to decide on what to get for my first build.

the AIIX4 sounds really good and worth the price, especially when its overclocked and judging by the chart but the problem is i didn't plan to overclock since i don't know how to and wouldn't want to risk messing up and making things more difficult for myself on my first attempt in building a computer. since i haven't thought about overclocking, would it be better to get the Phenom II X4 955? or risk overclocking the AIIX4? i am pretty afraid in messing up my first build even though many people said its easy to build a computer lol.

i have also considered the Antec 300 case too as i was advised to get that case due to the price and quality, so the review did give a lot of help.

thanks Big.Wayne, the forum is very helpful, especially for someone like me who is learning bit by bit =D .
 
i didn't expect this thread to get so informative - so much to take in lol and because of that it has kinda gotten a bit more difficult for me to decide on what to get for my first build.
Work out how much you get paid per hour then work out if putting two-three hours of effort into research that could save you a hundred pounds £££ is worth it! ;)

the AIIX4 sounds really good and worth the price, especially when its overclocked and judging by the chart but the problem is i didn't plan to overclock since i don't know how to and wouldn't want to risk messing up and making things more difficult for myself on my first attempt in building a computer
You donlt need to overclock it . . . . I can assure you even running at stock you will have a beautiful, smooth and fast system!

After some months when you have had time to read up a little more you can practice your art of overclocking on your Athlon II

i have also considered the Antec 300 case too as i was advised to get that case due to the price and quality, so the review did give a lot of help.

thanks Big.Wayne, the forum is very helpful, especially for someone like me who is learning bit by bit =D .

Your very welcome, I'm only trying to save you money and nothing else, the system I have suggested to you will be stunning! :cool:
 
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