Annoying Virgin Media and/or City Council

[Paddyw01]

Hey guys, I'm not sure whether I'm in the right section of OCUK so I apologise in advance if I'm not.
I've just written an email to Watchdog so I'll copy and paste it and let it explain my issue.

"Hi,

We have been without a landline, broadband internet or Virgin Media television for nearly 2 months now. They (Virgin Media) claim that they cannot proceed with the installation as our flat is newly built, and that, allegedly, the council (or their paving department) have buried all the cables needed for a landline, broadband internet and cable television, three metres underneath our drive that Virgin Media claim may be the property of the council. Furthermore, the paving was, as Virgin Media claim, also carried out by the council so, logically, if these claims are true, the council are responsible for this mistake and should allow Virgin Media to carry out the installation and all costs should be covered by them and Virgin Media.
Also, Virgin Media claim that they have received all the blueprints for the gas, water works and so forth from the council, in order to carry out the work, but they need a confirmation date which they claim they have not received from the council in order to proceed with the installation.

On the other hand, the council's motorway maintenance department, I believe, claim that they have not received any such enquiry from Virgin Media to carry out this installation for our address.

It's been nearly two months now, and we've called Virgin Media, different council departments many times, but nothing is being done. We were told that this job should have been completed within six weeks of notification that the work needed doing, but nothing has happened.

I believe this is a case of one or the other shifting the blame onto the other, but neither party is taking any responsibility for their actions.

At this point, we are at wits end. We've tried different routes to sort out this ongoing problem, but nothing has happened.

Please help!

Kind regards,"


So, basically, any suggestions as to who is to blame and what to do?

I'm so annoyed right now what's more annoying is that I can't figure out who is to blame.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Vulcan]

Wait, they recently built a flat without a landline?

 

[Paddyw01]

Wait, they recently built a flat without a landline?

Is that sarcastic or something mate?

 

[Vulcan]

Is that sarcastic or something mate?

Nope, it's question, I'm confirming if in the 21st century they would build a flat without a landline...

 

[Paddyw01]

Nope, it's question, I'm confirming if in the 21st century they would build a flat without a landline...

Oh ok. Yup, God knows what happened, but some or a group of major league ****s built a flat without a landline, in the 21st Century. Modern Britain aye?

 

[mattheman]

Oh ok. Yup, God knows what happened, but some or a group of major league ****s built a flat without a landline, in the 21st Century. Modern Britain aye?

Its to cut costs, as they can't really cut anymore costs on flats otherwise you'll end up with a cardboard wall between flats.

 

[Werewolf]

You can't even get a BT line? (I thought BT normally put the line in to the property as a matter of course if informed, unless the people building the flats were complete idiots).

I don't think the VM line would be 3 metres down, it may be 3 metres back and under the road/pavement with no access point (especially if there wasn't a property there when they were laying the cabling), in which case they may be unwilling to do the work required if only one person wants it.
It would be fairly expensive for them to do, and they don't have money to spare hooking up every property if it's going to require major work for possibly only one customer, especially as if it's been repaved/resurfaced properly since they put the ducting it the local councils can be very unwilling to let non essential services (and VM are non essential compared to gas/electric) do the work without a guarantee it'll be put back to a high standard (or if it'll cause a lot of disruption*).

I would possibly try reaching someone a little bit more senior at VM as things don't quite gel together with regards to the depth of the line.


*One of the reasons some parts of London didn't get old cabling replaced for a long time was, iirc because the councils were very wary of allowing the disruption that would be caused.

 

[Vulcan]

Its to cut costs, as they can't really cut anymore costs on flats otherwise you'll end up with a cardboard wall between flats.

I doubt it would save that much money.

And it's not wise considering the Governments push for broadband in every home.

 

[Paddyw01]

I doubt it would save that much money.

And it's not wise considering the Governments push for broadband in every home.

That's my thinking and you're right about Brown wanting broadband available to every home.

You can't even get a BT line? (I thought BT normally put the line in to the property as a matter of course if informed, unless the people building the flats were complete idiots).

I don't think the VM line would be 3 metres down, it may be 3 metres back and under the road/pavement with no access point (especially if there wasn't a property there when they were laying the cabling), in which case they may be unwilling to do the work required if only one person wants it.
It would be fairly expensive for them to do, and they don't have money to spare hooking up every property if it's going to require major work for possibly only one customer, especially as if it's been repaved/resurfaced properly since they put the ducting it the local councils can be very unwilling to let non essential services (and VM are non essential compared to gas/electric) do the work without a guarantee it'll be put back to a high standard (or if it'll cause a lot of disruption*).

I would possibly try reaching someone a little bit more senior at VM as things don't quite gel together with regards to the depth of the line.


*One of the reasons some parts of London didn't get old cabling replaced for a long time was, iirc because the councils were very wary of allowing the disruption that would be caused.

Yes VM have said I could try and contact BT to get a landline which would cost 130 quid, and that's something I'm going to have to look at seriously considering what you've just said.
If it's true what you say that it may cost too much to do the work, then I'm literally speechless. I don't know where to begin. As you've seen from my email to Watchdog, VM have led us to believe that they CAN do the work, but they need our council (whichever dept) to give them an installation date. Surely, they would have come right out and told us that it'd be too expensive for them to do. Or is it just me placing too much faith in human nature?

You may be right about the 3 metres thing, as why would it be 3 metres down? My dad (he's got a landline so he's been trying to sort it out mainly) said that they told him it was 3 metres down, so he might have misunderstood.

What exactly do you mean by access point? Is it just literally something for engineers to get easy access to utilities? And our flat is an extension to an old house - 1960s I'd say, so they'd definitely be able to have VM next door to us. Speaking of which, our downstairs neighbours have Sky, but do Sky send all their digital signals (phone, TV, broadband) through the dish, or would a cable be needed?

You know, if it emerges that what you say is accurate (as in someone admitting they don't want to spend the money), I am going to do everything in my power to sue the council, especially because they feel they have to justify their over inflated budgets on continuously resurfacing roads that do not need resurfacing with my tax money!!
God I wish I knew who is to blame and how I can force them to rectify their incompetence.

Thanks for providing me with this new theory though mate

Its to cut costs, as they can't really cut anymore costs on flats otherwise you'll end up with a cardboard wall between flats.

130 quid for BT to install a landline? Come on mate, a landline is especially important for people as 0800 and 0845 numbers can cost up to 1.50 on mobiles, and utility companies have a certain level of intimacy with those numbers.

 

[Werewolf]

The access point is a small man hole (about 6-8 inch diameter) normally put outside each property, on the path so they can access the ducting when it comes to hooking up a house (it allows them to pulle cable through it to the edge of the property).

Does the neighbour have VM?
It's possible even that VM run the cable past the houses (possibly even just on one side of the street) without hooking any of them up, if they were running it from one area they serviced to another, which happened in some areas for various reasons (it costs a lot to fully connect a street, so if there were not enough premises to make it worth while they may not have even tried).

Is there a Cable cabinet on the street, or any of the small manholes (probably marked as cabletel or ntl)?

I'm no expert (on anything), but what i've posted has been based on what i've seen/heard from various sources

Sky use the dish for TV, but a BT line for everything else.

 

[pat_c]

Good luck with your case, I had always thought access to a BT line was a requirement in any accommodation or housing nowadays.

 

[elitetrick]

From personal experience i would suggest you go for the bt line and adsl broadband, and sky tv, getting everything from sky and bt is prob cheaper than virgin anyway. You really don't want virgin, its terrible. There customer service is also abysmal, therefore i am 99.9% sure you're problem is all to do with virgin media. For you're own sanity's sake avoid them whilst you can.

 

[Paddyw01]

The access point is a small man hole (about 6-8 inch diameter) normally put outside each property, on the path so they can access the ducting when it comes to hooking up a house (it allows them to pulle cable through it to the edge of the property).

Does the neighbour have VM?
It's possible even that VM run the cable past the houses (possibly even just on one side of the street) without hooking any of them up, if they were running it from one area they serviced to another, which happened in some areas for various reasons (it costs a lot to fully connect a street, so if there were not enough premises to make it worth while they may not have even tried).

Is there a Cable cabinet on the street, or any of the small manholes (probably marked as cabletel or ntl)?

I'm no expert (on anything), but what i've posted has been based on what i've seen/heard from various sources

Sky use the dish for TV, but a BT line for everything else.

Thanks for the clarification.

As far as small manholes marked NTL etc are concerned, I could not find any in front of our property; anywhere in front of our flat and the house we're attached to in fact. Odd.

As far as I know, our neighbours have Sky broadband and there are a few dishes around our entire property, so, because Sky would need a cable for their router as you say, then our neighbours are hooked up via cable. Come to think of it though, is it possible to have broadband and a phone line from over head street pylons?

Good luck with your case, I had always thought access to a BT line was a requirement in any accommodation or housing nowadays.

I've tried to find some form of legislation that would support this, but there's absolutely nothing.

From personal experience i would suggest you go for the bt line and adsl broadband, and sky tv, getting everything from sky and bt is prob cheaper than virgin anyway. You really don't want virgin, its terrible. There customer service is also abysmal, therefore i am 99.9% sure you're problem is all to do with virgin media. For you're own sanity's sake avoid them whilst you can.

I'm not sure BT and Sky would be cheaper than VM as we normally pay 52-55 pounds a month for their biggest phone pack, a V+ HD box and a fair few channels and 20mb broadband.

I think if Watchdog can't help us out, I'm just going to have to contact BT and have them install a landline. But, because we're still under contract with VM until May, I'd demand they give us free services through BT (as they say they can do) for 3 months to compensate the 130 pound BT installation charge.
I think I'm going to change over to Sky anyways. I can't stand Rupert Murdoch and the thought of enriching that ***** further disgusts me, but VM are being a bloody pain. If only Richard Branson still owned the company outright, I'd write to him.

You're right about their customer service dept though mate. Always bloody India!!

 

[Raumarik]

You're bitching about not being able to get Virgin media and assuming what they're telling you is correct? Honestly I wouldn't believe what someone on the phone told me with regards to buried cables. None of the houses I've lived in have been able to get any form of cable tv or internet, despite cable being in the town and running through our main roads.

Quit bitching and get BT or Sky, good god you'd think it was the end of the world!

 

[jaysus]

You're bitching about not being able to get Virgin media and assuming what they're telling you is correct? Honestly I wouldn't believe what someone on the phone told me with regards to buried cables. None of the houses I've lived in have been able to get any form of cable tv or internet, despite cable being in the town and running through our main roads.

Quit bitching and get BT or Sky, good god you'd think it was the end of the world!

I've been with Virgin for a good few years now, and experienced the usual problems (being overcharged £300 over a 2 year period, then spending months chasing the cheque they very swiftly agreed was owed to me) but if I was in his position I'd probably do the same. On the whole I'm fairly happy with their service *touch wood*

By the sounds of it the OP getting this sorted will mean that his neighbours should have less of a problem should they want to do it.

No helpful advice on what to do though, other than nagging and chasing both parties.

 

[SlugForAButt]

You're bitching about not being able to get Virgin media and assuming what they're telling you is correct? Honestly I wouldn't believe what someone on the phone told me with regards to buried cables. None of the houses I've lived in have been able to get any form of cable tv or internet, despite cable being in the town and running through our main roads.

Quit bitching and get BT or Sky, good god you'd think it was the end of the world!

+1.

I'm on the side of a hill and can't get Freeview, no cable has been laid near our houses so I can't get VM.
Big deal, open your wallet and spend the £130 to get BT and then get Sky.
Welcome to my world. Just get on with it without bitching, like I did!

 

[jaysus]

+1.

I'm on the side of a hill and can't get Freeview, no cable has been laid near our houses so I can't get VM.
Big deal, open your wallet and spend the £130 to get BT and then get Sky.
Welcome to my world. Just get on with it without bitching, like I did!

You've got no choice - theres nothing you can do. He has some options, and he's trying to find out if theres any others.

 

[Paddyw01]

You're bitching about not being able to get Virgin media and assuming what they're telling you is correct? Honestly I wouldn't believe what someone on the phone told me with regards to buried cables. None of the houses I've lived in have been able to get any form of cable tv or internet, despite cable being in the town and running through our main roads.

Quit bitching and get BT or Sky, good god you'd think it was the end of the world!

Ok, let's say I get BT for 130 pounds which I have previously said that I am seriously considering, what then? I am still under contract until May with VM, but as you said, you think I should just go with a BT phone pack and Sky TV, but I'd still have to pay VM 4 months worth of usage (mounting up to roughly 200 quid) for breaking the contract. So, in the end, I'll have forked out 330 quid for a new BT landline, then there will be Sky's one off installation price of 50 quid or so. It all adds up. Can you now see the predicament I'm in? I want a landline, end of story, as I'm sick and tired of using my mobile, but either way, I'll have to spend money for someone else's incompetence.
Didn't you read the earlier part of the thread mate? My neighbours have Sky broadband, therefore our street is clearly cable activated as it were.

+1.

I'm on the side of a hill and can't get Freeview, no cable has been laid near our houses so I can't get VM.
Big deal, open your wallet and spend the £130 to get BT and then get Sky.
Welcome to my world. Just get on with it without bitching, like I did!

I'm sure if you lived in a busy town next door to people with broadband, an archaic form of communication known as a landline telephone and cable tv, you'd be a little cheesed off a landline wasn't put in by whichever party.

Again, I'm not the kind of person that's just going to "take it"! Someone has made a stupid mistake, whether it be the council, VM or the guy that built this flat and I want to force them to admit that they have made a mistake and to rectify it.

I've been with Virgin for a good few years now, and experienced the usual problems (being overcharged £300 over a 2 year period, then spending months chasing the cheque they very swiftly agreed was owed to me) but if I was in his position I'd probably do the same. On the whole I'm fairly happy with their service *touch wood*

By the sounds of it the OP getting this sorted will mean that his neighbours should have less of a problem should they want to do it.

No helpful advice on what to do though, other than nagging and chasing both parties.

One thing I have learnt from pure experience is that nagging, threatening by way of the law and chasing relevant parties is the way to get things done. I just don't understand why some people, no offence to SlugForAButt and Kami just won't nag and make people's lives a little difficult.

You've got no choice - theres nothing you can do. He has some options, and he's trying to find out if theres any others.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[Windle]

Couple of things:-

Virtually no cable, barring some high voltage distance transfer cables will ever be that deep. The recommended buried distance for VM/Cable is between 300mm to 400mm cover with the 300mm being a minimum for safety. Only things you normally get 3m down are sewers and the occasional trunk water main.

Normally goes like this:-

Electrical (Street Lighting/Low Voltage) - Minimum 200mm Cover - Typically 200-600mm Cover

Cable/Telecomms (BT/VM etc) - Minimum 300mm Cover - Typically 300-600mm Cover

Distribution Water (Scottish Water/Thames etc) - Minimum 700mm cover for Frost Protection - Typically 700mm to 1300mm Cover

Distribution Gas (Transco etc) - Minimum 600mm Cover - Typically 600mm to 1200mm Cover

Your trunk distribution tends to be a lot deeper, normally 1000mm+

Also, do you have a BT master socket in your building at all? Normally located near the front door in flats. It will have BT/Telecomms logo in the upper right hand corner, small white box. If this is the case, there should be a BT cable hooked up to the building and exchange but you will be liable for a £124.99 connection charge. If not, this is unusual but appears as if the developer hasn't got BT to hook up to the building. As mentioned this is extremely unusual as most developers get a full service connection, incorporating water, sewage, gas(if available), telecomms.

BT cables can be fed overhead, check your neighbours to see if they have cables coming from a Telegraph pole. Again, in most urban areas the normal install will be via underground. If your flat is a newbuild and VM installed their cabling pre-construction it is unlikely that a cable has been run to the flat as it's not considered an essential utility.

As you may guess, I work in the utilities industry and a large part of what I do is tracing and locating buried utilities.

 

[Damnations Fury]

Its to cut costs, as they can't really cut anymore costs on flats otherwise you'll end up with a cardboard wall between flats.

Ironically, the walls in the modern apartments I live in are made of reconstituted cardboard and stuff like that. Wouldn't dare try to hang a TV on them.