Well if building a HTPC now from the start..then you would have to be daft not to go i3.
Simple as.
It ticks every box.
AMD need to get worried.
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Ideal balance of power/performance/budget for HTPC?
- Thread starter rolfharris
- Start date
Well if building a HTPC now from the start..then you would have to be daft not to go i3.
Simple as.
It ticks every box.
AMD need to get worried.
Hello rolfharris,
sorry for the late reply but as it's Saturday there have been plenty of chores to do!
The good news is there are plenty of options for your HTPC project, both from AMD and Intel . . . I'd like to pass on the information you would require to confidently make a purchasing decision on the AMD side of things as that's what I know best having used it myself the past few months . . . . Hopefully another member of our forums would also take some time out to fill you in on the Intel side of things!
I will try to make this as brief as possible as if I really go to work this post will be turn into a thesis that will take you an three hours to read and I'm sure you got better things to do!
You've got a choice between four processors and one chipset that can either be DDR2 or DDR3 (so 8 possible options), the price of the CPU/Mobo *combined* start at approx £85 and rise up to £140, the price of the memory is totally variable depending on your needs but could be as low as £15 or as high as £80 . . .
- AMD® 45nm Processors
- AMD Sempron™ 140 █
- AMD Athlon™ II 240 █ █
- AMD Athlon™ II 425 █ █ █
- AMD Athlon™ II 620 █ █ █ █
Moving on we come next to the Athlon™II X2 240 (Regor) dual core costing approx £45 and running at 2.8GHz with a 65w TDP, pretty much the same as the Sempron™ 140 above but with two cores instead of one so adding a bit more processor grunt for the odd bit of encoding and perhaps some gaming. This chip is produced as a dual core and therefore has no lucky dip unlocking option, you pay for a dual-core and that's what you get. The Sempron™ 140 mentioned above is one of these chips with a core disabled.
Now we move onto the next chip and my personal favourite the Athlon™II X3 425 (Rana) triple core costing approx £55 and running at 2.7GHz with a 95w TDP. This is definitely going to be one of AMD's best selling chips as we move into the age of Windows 7 and multicore support. It's quite Novel having a three core processor and will lend itself to a variety of tasks such as HTPC duties, encoding, gaming and perhaps running a complex Home-Server with a second Virtualized O/S. Having used this chip in my main workstation since November 2009 I am very impressed, it feels fast as a shooting star and minces through most tasks without breaking into a sweat. I think this chips capabilities exceed my personal needs but I have been using a dual core since 2006 and fancied something a bit different, this combined with the low selling price and the possibility of unlocking into a quad core was enough to tempt me into coughing up the little extra over the asking price of a dual core and I expect it will be the same for many others . . . .
Last but certainly not least in the choice of processors is the AMD Athlon™ II X4 620 (Propus) quad core costing approx £80 and running at 2.6GHz also with a 95w TDP. This chip is almost certainly way overkill for a basic HTPC unless your gonna use the machine for a lot of encoding/transcoding duties or other very serious processor intensive tasks along with running a complex Home-Server with a second or third Virtualized O/S. If your intending to not upgrade the platform for a while then I dare say you will be well covered having a quad-core beating away at the heart of the machine but you have to decide for yourself if the extra price premium is really worth it if your not gonna use the full potential . . . a Quad Core HTPC is perhaps a bit gratuitous for most!. The Athlon II X3 425 is actually the same as this quad core but with the fourth core disabled.
Well hopefully I didn't bore you to much with that brief breakdown of all the chips but you got a nice choice there and all have their merits. All the chips are based on the AM3 form factor which means they have *both* an integrated DDR2 and DDR3 memory controller meaning they can work with either a socket AM2+ DDR2 motherboard or a socket AM3 DDR3 motherboard, this platform interoperability has always been a strongpoint for AMD and really does give you a lot of flexibility in what bits of hardware you fit together, one size processor fits all. There is one last thing I almost forgot to mention which is there is an *e* series of all these chips which are being marketed as *e*nergy efficient, I don't know much about them except they have a lower [VID] than the standard chips above and carry a reasonable price premium . . . I'm not totally convinced these are worth paying extra for as the standard chips can be adjusted to run with lower power so bear that in mind before you pay extra for that *service* . . . you can peruse the whole series of chips by following the link below . . .
AMD Athlon™ II Processor Model Numbers and Comparisons here
All of the chips we have just covered are based on either of these two bits of silicon . . .
So having got the processors out the way we can turn our attention to the motherboards/chipsets, thankfully this will be a lot simpler to explain as basically we have the same chipset but one uses DDR2 memory while the other uses DDR3 memory. I have selected two samples for your consideration based on the microATX form factor and manufactured by ASUS . . .
- AMD® 785G Chipsets
- ASUS M4A785D-M Pro (DDR2)
- ASUS M4A785D-M Evo (DDR3)
These DDR2/DDR3 motherboards are really something else, priced at £60 and £70 respectively they offer an ideal platform for a modern HTPC. I personally opted for the DDR2 based ASUS M4A785D-M Pro as I already owned some nice sticks of Kingston Hyper-X DDR2-1066 memory and looking at the test results between DDR2 & DDR3 motherboards I couldn't see an obvious advantage to going the DDR3 route so the choice was easy. The features on these board are pleasing for a hardware enthusiast, fully featured underclocking/overclocking BIOS, SATA Raid 0/1/10, eSATA, 8-Channel High Definition Audio, the list goes on and on!
Both these boards offer almost identical features with the only differences being on the DDR3 based ASUS M4A785D-M Evo which has FireWire, 140w TDP CPU support and 128MB SidePort Memory . . . . Not sure if you need FireWire?, all the chips mentioned above are max 95w TDP, and the SidePort memory is a debatable feature that helps improve the framerate in games! . . . while you ponder that check out the rear I/O ports!
Both boards include the superb Radeon™ HD 4200 IGP part with HDMI/DVI/VGA outputs which is an ideal graphics solution for a HTPC, providing crisp graphics, Microsoft® DirectX® 10.1 support, Hardware Decode Acceleration for H.264, VC-1, MPEG-2 and Blu-ray™ playback
ATI Radeon HD 4200 Series Specifications here
I've been using the IGP on and off for a few months and it works extremely well although it's not quite good enough for modern gaming yet!
5443 3DMark
3So the only thing that really remains to figure out is which memory tech do you use? . . . DDR2 or DDR3? . . . I guess the deciding factor on this will be what memory you can lay your hands for the best price possible, you could get your build going with just a single 1GB stick of DDR2-800 if going for uBer value!
- DDR2-1066/DDR2-800/DDR2-666
- DDR3-1600/DDR3-1333/DDR3-1066
My personal advice to you if you decide to go the AMD route is too put your feelers out for some memory and see what comes along. I should imagine you could pick up a 1GB stick of DDR2 for £15 or maybe a full 2GB set for £30, DDR2-1066 would be preferable but DDR2-800 or DDR2-666 would also get the job done. Both boards mentioned above come with four DIMM slots so you can always add more memory in the future should you need it.
1GB or 2GB of DDR2/DDR3 should be ample for Windows 7/XBMC? . . . I guess the bottom line will be cost . . . I'm wondering are you really gonna notice the difference between 1GB stick of DDR2-800 vs. a whiz-bang set of DDR3? . . . You tell me!
I'd better get this wrapped up now as your brain is probably wanting a rest, I do hope this information will be useful to you and other members of the community and I welcome any polite feedback/further questions you or others may have!
Thanks for reading!
This post has been powered by an 800MHz idling Athlon™II X3 425 @ 0.976vCore and several cups of coffee!
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I would go i3
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3704&p=3
If you have a Clarkdale CPU and a H55, H57 or Q57 motherboard, you can bitstream Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD-MA over HDMI. Outputting 8-channel LPCM over HDMI is also supported.
Clarkdale is just perfect for an HTPC. You get the benefits of integrated graphics without sacrificing any features at all. It’s taken entirely too long but we now have the ability to have the same functionality from a PC as we get from a set-top Blu-ray player
For a HTPC there's simply none better than these new Clarkies. The on-package GPU keeps power consumption nice and low, enabling some pretty cool mini-ITX designs that we'll see this year. Then there's the feature holy-grail: Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD-MA bitstreaming over HDMI. If you're serious about building an HTPC in 2010, you'll want one of Intel's new Core i3s or i5s.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3704&p=3
If you have a Clarkdale CPU and a H55, H57 or Q57 motherboard, you can bitstream Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD-MA over HDMI. Outputting 8-channel LPCM over HDMI is also supported.
Clarkdale is just perfect for an HTPC. You get the benefits of integrated graphics without sacrificing any features at all. It’s taken entirely too long but we now have the ability to have the same functionality from a PC as we get from a set-top Blu-ray player
For a HTPC there's simply none better than these new Clarkies. The on-package GPU keeps power consumption nice and low, enabling some pretty cool mini-ITX designs that we'll see this year. Then there's the feature holy-grail: Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD-MA bitstreaming over HDMI. If you're serious about building an HTPC in 2010, you'll want one of Intel's new Core i3s or i5s.
Caporegime
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I would go with a Sempron 140 or AMD Athlon II X2 with a 785G motherboard or a Nvidia 9300 motherboard with a Celeron dual core or an E5000 series dual core.
I know plenty of people who have gone with a Sempron 140 or the cheapest Athlon II X2 and 785G or 780G route and they can playback HD video fine.
The whole point of the media decoding abilities of modern IGPs is so that it negates the need for a very powerful CPU and as seen with the Ion platform even with a relatively weak Atom processor HD video can be decoded.
I know plenty of people who have gone with a Sempron 140 or the cheapest Athlon II X2 and 785G or 780G route and they can playback HD video fine.
The whole point of the media decoding abilities of modern IGPs is so that it negates the need for a very powerful CPU and as seen with the Ion platform even with a relatively weak Atom processor HD video can be decoded.
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Associate
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haha you love that mobo bigwayne xD
i3 is very good since it offers you onboard GPU. This means you can save, what £30 on a standalone card or nothing since intel only mover the graphics from the mobo to the processor.Bear in mind that the integrated GPU is an intel chipset based GPU. I haven't seen the benchmarks but I doubt it'll be anything better than integrated AMD or Nvidia mobo chipsets.
My biggest problem tho is the cost of H55/H57 boards, which at this current time is far too high IMO. The cost of the new i3/i5 aswell is too similar to that of an i5 750.
Someone correct me here but from my understanding of turbo, it is slightly useless. Since the vast majority of stuff is at least dual threaded plus the fact that people often run something in the background means that the second core won't be shutting down often thus raising the clock of the remaining cores.
At the current time, AMD is the way to go on this. Listen to Big waynes ramblings here lol.
BTW i've (4 x 2gb) of DDR2 ram to sell if your interested.
i3 is very good since it offers you onboard GPU. This means you can save, what £30 on a standalone card or nothing since intel only mover the graphics from the mobo to the processor.Bear in mind that the integrated GPU is an intel chipset based GPU. I haven't seen the benchmarks but I doubt it'll be anything better than integrated AMD or Nvidia mobo chipsets.
My biggest problem tho is the cost of H55/H57 boards, which at this current time is far too high IMO. The cost of the new i3/i5 aswell is too similar to that of an i5 750.
Someone correct me here but from my understanding of turbo, it is slightly useless. Since the vast majority of stuff is at least dual threaded plus the fact that people often run something in the background means that the second core won't be shutting down often thus raising the clock of the remaining cores.
At the current time, AMD is the way to go on this. Listen to Big waynes ramblings here lol.
BTW i've (4 x 2gb) of DDR2 ram to sell if your interested.
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How are most things multi threated? Developers after years of being told stil dont do it, most programs barely use 2 cores let alone 4.
The speed war may re-appear as i5 ploughs ahead up into 5ghz well before the 4 cores can catch up. What will be intresting is who outperforms now compared with in the distant future.
Your right tho, i3 is the best but the cost of motherboards is problematic.
Im having the i5 750 v i5 660 debate too lol
i3 is 88 quid and the 750 is 150 quid so the last point you make is a bit pap to be fair.
H55 mobo's are 75 quid and you don't need a card to have Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD-MA bitstreaming over HDMI so another saving.
What about Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD-MA bitstreaming over HDMI?
You missed the audio part of things...something fundamental when building a HTPC
I personally like to play single player games on my htpc so I can use the big screen and chill on the sofa. For anyone who even might want to do this (e.g. 360 controller and dirt 2 ect) then getting a 5 series card (5770 in my case) is simples!
You have the option to game and get dolby TrueHD and DTS HD-MA bitstreaming over HDMI
I personally like to play single player games on my htpc so I can use the big screen and chill on the sofa. For anyone who even might want to do this (e.g. 360 controller and dirt 2 ect) then getting a 5 series card (5770 in my case) is simples!
You have the option to game and get dolby TrueHD and DTS HD-MA bitstreaming over HDMI
But that means buying a GFX card.. making the the point of the cost of the H55 a moot point.
But that means buying a GFX card.. making the the point of the cost of the H55 a moot point.
but then I would still rather have a 5 series card and cheaper amd cpu/mobo than more expensive intel cpu/mobo and not be able to game!
So using the savings to go towards a GPU for those that want the option to game whilst not sacrificing on audio is more than a valid point.
This thread is not about a gaming PC its a HTPC build thread
Maybe check wiki so you can see what one actually is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_theater_PC
"Gaming - Plays any PC game and application within the game or application's system requirements"
Even the pictures and descriptions shows standard components WITH a gpu! Just because you might only want to watch cheesy movies Hancock lol!
They can be as limited as you want or do everything you want. To me a gaming PC can be noisy, have lots of bright lights, run heavily overclocked, have a very beefy graphics card ect... I am not saying do all that am I.
You know I have a point and are instead just being a tool as per usual. If the OP wanted he now has the option of being able to game whilst getting HD audio.
The intel option is not the only option for HD audio yet it is the more limited option, IF the OP should decide he might also want to use his htpc to play some games on the big screen!
For all you know the OP does not even have a receiver to take the hd audio anyway!
You're linking to Wikipedia to back up your points?
Priceless.
Fact is the OP talks about power usage and 1080p playback.
No mention of games and yet you deem it fit to talk about throwing in a 5 series GFX card? Increasing noise and power consumption.
That may well be the right option for you,But just answer the OP's question FFS...Its not hard.