Remember to always do the right thing and say Sorry....

[MikeHunt79]

This is not good, I cant imagine being the boyfriend that phoned and then got to speak to that little scroat.

I'm thinking that there is more to this... How did he know who the boyfriend was? I know he used her phone, but I'd imagine she'd have the number of more than 1 man in there...

 

[Tombstone]

The ONLY way your going to reduce crimes like this is if your understand WHY they have been committed.
Harsher punishments are about as useful as a chocolate teacup with regards to reducing such crimes, decades of research and stats pretty much conclusively show that harsher punishments do not act as a deterant.
Also obviously Prevention > cure.

I have the a great deal of respect for social services and the work they do, however I feel they are failing far too often. I don't know why this is but feel the amount of children that slip through the net is unacceptable.

I think a factor in the harsher punishments desire is also down to a feeling of "justice" being dealt for the victim of the crime.

I mean, personally..if some 13 year old boy raped my 3 year old daughter...I would be absolutely furious if he got a 3 year term in a young offenders institution as a "punishment".

 

[Vesta_Man]

This. I know someone who I went to school with who is in prison for rape and whilst I can't say for certain that he was abused it seemed VERY unlikely he was abused as his family were nice and had a very stable life.

This person was an absolute **** at school, bullying people etc and his parents really tried to help him stop it, but it clearly didn't work. It's very unlikely he was abused and yet he's in prison for rape now. Where's your justification for that, Vesta?

Sorry but case's like this are the minority, as stated the majority of these young offenders who commit rape/murder come from horrific family's / environments.
Thats a FACT, ask any expert in the field.

 

[Tombstone]

I'm thinking that there is more to this... How did he know who the boyfriend was? I know he used her phone, but I'd imagine she'd have the number of more than 1 man in there...

I doubt he knew who the boyfriend was...its probably more the case that the boyfriend phoned, he bragged about raping said woman, and it merely turned out to be the boyfriend.

 

[Tombstone]

Sorry but case's like this are the minority, as stated the majority of these young offenders who commit rape/murder come from horrific family's / environments.
Thats a FACT, ask any expert in the field.

Though of course we dont know whether thats a "FACT" in this case. Unless you are privy to facts about the case that we arent.

 

[Vesta_Man]

I think a factor in the harsher punishments desire is also down to a feeling of "justice" being dealt for the victim of the crime.

I mean, personally..if some 13 year old boy raped my 3 year old daughter...I would be absolutely furious if he got a 3 year term in a young offenders institution as a "punishment".

Where's the justice for the child that has been messed up ?
Society has failed him just as much imho.

 

[antijoke]

Where's the justice for the child that has been messed up ?
Society has failed him just as much imho.

No, his parents failed him.

Wait are you talking about the 3 year old in that post or the 13 year old?

 

[Tombstone]

Where's the justice for the child that has been messed up ?
Society has failed him just as much imho.

Wheres the justice for the 3 year old girl?

Has to work both ways. Cant just all be about the person committing the crime and neglecting the victim. Unless you mean to suggest to me that if my 3 year old daughter is raped I should want the rapist to get a light sentence??

 

[antijoke]

Wheres the justice for the 3 year old girl?

Has to work both ways. Cant just all be about the person committing the crime and neglecting the victim.

That's the problem with todays culture, we (I say we, I actually mean the people dealing with the offender) care to much for the rights of the criminal.

 

[Vesta_Man]

Wheres the justice for the 3 year old girl?

Has to work both ways. Cant just all be about the person committing the crime and neglecting the victim.

But the point I'm trying to make is had this child not been allowed to be messed up then their would be NO victim!
So instead of having 2 victims (yes the child is a victim in most case's imho) you would have 0 victims!

 

[Tombstone]

But the point I'm trying to make is had this child not been allowed to be messed up then their would be NO victim!
So instead of having 2 victims (yes the child is a victim in most case's imho) you would have 0 victims!

As I pointed out above...unless you are privy to facts in this case that we arent you dont know whether the child in this case was "messed up". You are making just as much of an assumption as others are...just in the opposite direction. Assumption is still assumption.

 

[antijoke]

But the point I'm trying to make is had this child not been allowed to be messed up then their would be NO victim!
So instead of having 2 victims (yes the child is a victim in most case's imho) you would have 0 victims!

STOP TALKING ABOUT THE OFFENDER AS A VICTIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Gaygle]

Yes, I'm a youth worker that works with 'high risk' children and have visited the high security youth offenders 'prison' a few times to teach them music production.

This explains a lot. You become attached to these kids. Even friends with them. Of course you're going to favour the little darlings.

If you knew the life's most of these young offenders then you would understand why they are so messed up and commit such horrific crimes!
Your a product of your environment and the environment of most of these kids is truly horrific, not everything is black and white!!

This has nothing to do with upbringing. This isn't like stealing a car or shop lifting, which, i admit can come down to peer pressure and bad home life. This is rape. This is not a minor crime that can be attributed to bad family. I suppose you'd be in favour of 18 year olds getting off with committing terrible crimes because they *may* have had a bad home life.

How are you using this as an excuse? So just because of a persons background, they should get off with lighter sentences?

What are you guys doing to try and prevent these horrific crimes from happening other than scream for blood on the internet that is??

Vote for a political party who want to toughen up on crime rather than go all liberal.

 

[Azagoth]

STOP TALKING ABOUT THE OFFENDER AS A VICTIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tbh!

 

[Gaygle]

Where's the justice for the child that has been messed up ?
Society has failed him just as much imho.

If you ever decide youth working isn't for you, i think you should consider a career as a defence lawyer.

"Sorry ma'am, i know he raped you and only got 3 years, but more importantly, where's the justice for the child?!?!?!?!1111!!!"

 

[peter_hutson]

But the point I'm trying to make is had this child not been allowed to be messed up then their would be NO victim!
So instead of having 2 victims (yes the child is a victim in most case's imho) you would have 0 victims!

Thats true, but just because "society has failed" this child, that does not mean scoiety should fail the victim by giving a lenient sentence. The purpose of prison is not just to rehabilitate criminals, but also to punish them. IMHO justice is not done if either fails to occur.

 

[Deiwos]

Sorry but case's like this are the minority, as stated the majority of these young offenders who commit rape/murder come from horrific family's / environments.
Thats a FACT, ask any expert in the field.

And this kid is, for a FACT, messed up, abused, molested etc? The point I was trying to make is that you state all of this as FACT, yet no such information is available in this case, and it might just be that this kid comes from a perfectly normal family and he's just an evil ****.

 

[Vesta_Man]

This has nothing to do with upbringing.

Complete and utter nonsense

But hey I guess you know more than all the experts who have studied this for decades!


It has everything to do with upbringing in the 'majority' of case's.
The only way we will significantly reduce these crimes is if we identify children at high risk and intervene with the appropriate action. It really isn't rocket science!!

And this kid is, for a FACT, messed up, abused, molested etc? The point I was trying to make is that you state all of this as FACT, yet no such information is available in this case, and it might just be that this kid comes from a perfectly normal family and he's just an evil ****.

And as I have already stated this is ONLY the case with a minority of the young offenders for such horrific and serious crimes, obviously if you want to significantly reduce such crimes it makes logical sense to go after the MAJORITY!

 

[PGdude]

Surely punishments (especially harsh ones) teach people not to do things?

The kid did it out of malice, not because he was frustrated at having a crud upbringing.

Sure malice is a result of that, but why can't we teach ALL offenders, not just older ones what's wrong and right? If a "child" is punished harshly, surely that will stick?

 

[krooton]

This explains a lot. You become attached to these kids. Even friends with them. Of course you're going to favour the little darlings.



This has nothing to do with upbringing. This isn't like stealing a car or shop lifting, which, i admit can come down to peer pressure and bad home life. This is rape. This is not a minor crime that can be attributed to bad family.

What, like kids who have been prostituted out by their own parents to a paedo ring, along with their younger sibling, only for both kids to develop serious issues and messed up sexual views?

All he is trying to say is that prevention is better than cure, and sticking the kid in jail for 5-10 years isn't actually a cure, at best it's a pointless band-aid.