But what is the standard? Today almost every single group of mainstream cars is capable of being driven in a way that allows you to apply large amounts of power without fear of wheelspin. You can drive a 1.6 Fiesta, a 2.0 Insignia, a BMW 330 or an Audi RS4 at near full tilt, and unless you're absolutely mental, you won't be wheelspinning. The cars have been designed to handle their power well.
The only group of cars where this isn't the case is in the current crop of turbocharged high-torque high-power FWD hatches. Driving these cars just isn't the same experience. You have to be constantly aware that your right foot is going to spin the tyres in to a frenzy if you squeeze it.
The fact that there is a problem with these high-powered FWD vehicles is evidenced by the development and investment being made to counter torque steer with LSDs, RevoKnuckle etc.
I'm not arguing that you can't drive a 300 hp Astra VXR without crashing, but they just don't drive like "normal" cars.
Have you not thought whether the minority of people who don't consider it a problem.. could be mistaken?
I see your point, but disagree - there are so many tuned "good" cars out there that cannot be simply floored the moment you pass the apex.
I'm not mistaken, torque steer, at least on my ST, and also true for my old Corsa VXR, is not a problem, it doesn't restrict how I drive, but as long as I'm aware of it, and can counter it, its ok. RWD has its own characteristics that are a problem for some people too, but, many people (myself included) would argue that as long as you understand those characteristics, and know how to use/correct them, then they become a non-issue.
Hence posing it as a question not a statement.
Torque steer is a problem in cars though when you slam the throttle to the floor, hand on the wheel or not, but it does mean you just don't do it, which is a bit pants really as you can't use the car to it's full potential.
I can floor my car with 325lbft through the front wheels, and easily counter what little torque steer there is - so easy in fact, that I don't even think about doing it anymore, its just natural.
Like I say, with "equal length" driveshafts, and various chassis/bushing/arb/suspension improvements over the years, torque steer isn't a huge issue any more. a 200BHP FRST was a problem, a 275BHP Focus ST is not.
I don't quite understand the whole powerful hot hatch FWD thing. As a daily driver they can't be very comfortable and need attention to drive, but as a second car you've thrown £15k+ at it and you could have bought something much more fun and quicker for the same money?!
Hot hatches should just be left alone if you ask me. They're improved by the manufacturer for people who need comfort, space and practicality but also want a bit more grunt, so why try to turn a perfectly set up vehicle into an underachieving performance car?
I had some rude boy in an Astra VXR try to outdo me when I first bought my 220 Turbo. He had Courtney stickers plastered all over it and it made a loud noise...but he soon realised he'd wasted his money.
Silly silly silly. Sell it and go RWD if you want something quick and enjoyable at the weekend.
When pootling along as a daily driver, I never exceed 3000RPM, the car doesn't feel much, if any different - no extra attention is needed, and it feels like I'm driving a Focus. Hell, my girlfriend can drive it regularly without issue, and she's used to a 1.0 Yaris.
As for the Astra VXR, how do you know he was trying to outdo you? Maybe he just wanted some fun - I'll quite often try it on against cars I know that are faster than me, because I'm curious/up for a laugh, and I don't really care who wins, because I already know I have a small penis (albeit big enough to fill a pram
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