Torque steer/understeer/difficulty extracting the full power is all part of the game with a high powered front wheel drive car. The whole appeal of it is that you can't get in it like Mickey Chav from round the block and plant it in first, second or third on the way to Asda with your hands off the wheel. This is not limited to FWD cars though. Most 300bhp cars demand respect anyway. I swear this forum is so anti modding it's a bit boring, and mainly led by the same boring brigade. Go on any other motors forum and people would generally show more interest and encouragement. What gets me, is that if it was a project car like a 205gti, people would be complimenting the choice and that 300bhp would be amazing etc etc. But talk about doing it in a modern day hot hatch and it's a different story.
I join the 300bhp club next week.
- Thread starter Princey
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If it isn't a problem and doesn't restrict how you drive, why do you need to be aware of it and capable of countering it? You have simple adapted to driving with it, but that doesn't mean that it's all that great.
If I punch you in the eye every time your eye is open, you will close your eye. It will become "natural" to have one eye, because the alternative is it gets punched. What can become natural over time is not necessarily what's best or even good!
So Ford developed RevoKnuckle for fun? These people actually build cars and have decided they have a torque steer problem with FWD!
Torque steer is only a problem if you let it be..
In terms of absolute maximums, it's a hindrance, in terms of ragging the car on real roads, it's very much in control of the driver..
I think people are so hung up on 'theory' and absolute performance, forgetting that on normal roads with normal people, things like torque steer etc move much further down the list, it's more about accessible peformance.
All IMO and IME of course.
In terms of absolute maximums, it's a hindrance, in terms of ragging the car on real roads, it's very much in control of the driver..
I think people are so hung up on 'theory' and absolute performance, forgetting that on normal roads with normal people, things like torque steer etc move much further down the list, it's more about accessible peformance.
All IMO and IME of course.
It isn't a problem because driving style can be adapted to driving it, just like you'd have to adapt your driving style if you moved from a low powered FWD car to a 300BHP RWD car.
No, it isn't what is best, and no one is saying it is, we're simply saying that it can be done. I couldn't care less what other people consider good, because its my car, and I drive it - I manage to go fast and have fun just fine, thanks.
They are building a car for the masses, a car that Joe Bloggs can jump in, put his foot down and go fast in. Plus, things are sometimes improved upon simply because they can be improved upon - plus Ford wasn't going to take the risk of getting the slating they got with the MK1 RS again.
I'm not sure why you continue you preach, it is not possible to convert me, I'm already aware of what RWD can do, as I also own a 220BHP RWD car as well - a car that I use competitively. Demon has explained it well - on the road, I simply prefer a FWD car.
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They are building a car for the masses, yes. So why take a car built for the masses that is already on the real fringe of it's capacity, and then push it over the edge? There are more accomplished cars available. We are trying to ensure that those other cars are given consideration before the OP ends up with something that could be a bit rubbish. Any ideas that a 300hp FWD car is "fine" and "not a problem", even if fun, are a little farfetched.
I'm not trying to convert you. I'm trying to ensure the OP is not lured in to tuning his car under the false pretense that, with 300 hp, it's not going to be a bit of a pain to drive.
Because the OP is perfectly capable of making those considerations himself - as if he was not, I'm sure the topic would be "Should I buy another car or take my VXR to the next step of 300+BHP".
He obviously likes his car, he obviously enjoys modifying his car too - if you don't like it then that's your prerogative, but for people to burst out with "300BHP FWD LOL" and the like, stating that it simply does not work is nothing less than inaccurate.
Me personally, I wouldn't spend the money that he would have to to take his car from standard to 300BHP, in fact, the only reason my car isn't standard, is because it was so cheap to take it up to its current level of tune (under £300!) that it would have been rude not to, but I do not go around telling him how he should spend his money.
He obviously likes his car, he obviously enjoys modifying his car too - if you don't like it then that's your prerogative, but for people to burst out with "300BHP FWD LOL" and the like, stating that it simply does not work is nothing less than inaccurate.
Me personally, I wouldn't spend the money that he would have to to take his car from standard to 300BHP, in fact, the only reason my car isn't standard, is because it was so cheap to take it up to its current level of tune (under £300!) that it would have been rude not to, but I do not go around telling him how he should spend his money.
That's because it's pointless and you're ruining the car
Again, the whole notion you have is theoretically 'more accomplished' in situations that the OP might not require..
I'd wager he doesn't drive absolutely on the limit down b-roads or on the track, he probably just generally hoons it around, A-roads, dual carraigeways etc, where getting 300BHP down in even an Astra is probably easily do-able..
I agree with your opinion however, I just don't think it takes into account the OP's usage necessarily. If this is the case, then I don't see an issue myself, as I said my brother had his Zaf VXR with too much power, but seemed to have a good laugh and exploited it fine, considering he had the M5 next to it on the driveway and then listening to his comments made me realise that despite what is awesome on paper, sometimes it doesn't translate to absolute fun on real roads/journeys, that depends on the individual.
Please tell me I haven't read that wrong. Are you saying your brother thinks a Zafira is more fun than an M5??
A well backed up statement there. Well done.
Please tell me I haven't read that wrong. Are you saying your brother thinks a Zafira is more fun than an M5??
No, that would be you putting words into his mouth. I would suggest reading what he says and to stop trolling.
Please tell me I haven't read that wrong. Are you saying your brother thinks a Zafira is more fun than an M5??
Assuming you actually read what he said, I also assume you've driven both in his brothers circumstances to make your own informed decision?
Or are you like 90% of the rest of the people in this thread who are stating theory as fact?
Please tell me I haven't read that wrong. Are you saying your brother thinks a Zafira is more fun than an M5??
In a lot of situations yes..
Shocking I know, but he drives around at Mach 1 everywhere in all his cars..
The main thing is that when you hoon everywhere, the M5 is a handful to drive with DSC Off, and almost castrated with DSC ON.. I have had plenty of time in his M5 to know that it's totally awesome in the power department, but it takes a lot of effort and risk to drive it on the limit, which has to be with DSC off..
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Love it, people bashing cars that they haven’t driven.
Got to love armchair experts eh?
Got to love armchair experts eh?
In a lot of situations yes..
Shocking I know, but he drives around at Mach 1 everywhere in all his cars..
The main thing is that when you hoon everywhere, the M5 is a handful to drive with DSC Off, and almost castrated with DSC ON.. I have had plenty of time in his M5 to know that it's totally awesome in the power department, but it takes a lot of effort and risk to drive it on the limit, which has to be with DSC off..
It takes a lot of effort yes but that's surely the rewarding part of driving?!
As for you people above, I wasn't "trolling", I was asking if someone was seriously suggesting a FWD was more fun than an M5, possibly one of the best handling saloons on the road. And before you start waffling on, yes I have driven an M5, although a 280bhp Zafira I haven't...but at the end of the day, it's a people carrier, hardly a tough call to make between the two cars is it.
As for the 'well backed up' comment, read up, I explained why Hot Hatchbacks should be left alone.
Crikey, time of the month for some people...
Love it, people bashing cars that they haven’t driven.
Got to love armchair experts eh?
Many people have driven a standard Astra VXR and found them to be compromised by the power, so suggesting that more power would amplify this is entirely reasonable.Anything else to add or is that you done for the day?
My brother is an original boy-racer.. and like me, it's not primarily about the rewarding drive of the car, it's about speed and being infront of the other guy..
He can drive the Zafira on the limit with ease, and if you've been in that thing with him, you'd realise that even though it's limit may be lower then other cars, it's still very quick, it takes a very committed driver in another car to outpace him, and lets face it, how often does that occur?
His M5 may be more rewarding to drive, but I've chased him in his old 330BHO A6 2.7TT Audi, and despite his best efforts, the Audi with AWD had quite impressive grip and drive through the corners, for him either the DSC kept reigning him in, and when turned off, you could see the rear end sliding as he modulated the power to try and get drive, I just planted my foot in the Audi and was welded up his backside..
Is the Audi less rewarding as a drivers car? Yes, did I have a smile from ear to ear when I was able to keep up and harass him in his new M5? Absolutely..
I think there are two types of people, those that get their reward from the cars ability, and those that get their reward from a more competititve angle, which is why I think arguments can ensue.
