prisoners earning qualifications whilst serving their sentence

[cm1179]

I speak from the perspective of actually being in prison. I was put in prison for defending myself in a road rage incident. I was based in a remand centre for the whole of my sentence.

Whilst I am not scum like some like to think by mentioning prison, I consider myself a good member of the public. I have worked since the age of sixteen and I am now 34 never been in trouble before or after the incident. To the point now. Whilst in prison I gained my CLAIT cert. Which bought me onto the interest of pcs when I got out, I then started using 3ds max and I now freelance in 3d and also repair pcs part time. This came from the teaching in prison, if it was not for this I perhaps would never of got into pcs and gained work.

However the downsides to this are, my conviction became spent after 8 years. So for 8 years It was very difficult to get a job because employers sometimes knew that I had a criminal record so would not get a job because of it. So all the training in prison is a bit pointless because it is hard to get a job after anyway. Our own fault for going to prison.

Also most of the prisoners had no real basic grasp of english or maths, we had a maths lesson and I was very surprised when 10x and 5x tables were on the blackboard. Some of the guys genuinely wanted to learn, however they went back to their normal ways once being release. There is no rehabilitation once released. Well for the majority at least.

So to me if they are going to train inside prisons then it is important to help the majority once they are released. I still personally believe that some people will never ever get any better and continue the life of crime. Hard wired.

To say they should just break rocks is pointless. I can guarantee a lot of prisoners would be quite happy to break rocks instead of learning.

I do believe however that people that rape or murder should be removed from society altogether.

i appreciate your input and my gripe is not aimed at you, it is aimed at the system. my point is, prisoners seem to have more opportunity that a lot of people who are law abiding citizens

 

[jas72]

Yes they should! It is all about rehabilitation. It is in our best interest to get them to be productive, reformed members of society.

Prison should be primarily rehabilitative, and secondarily punitive. Otherwise, what is the point. I absolutely hate how the prison system the world over is designed to dehumanize and ruin you. It's wrong. People who do their time, should do so in a way that is to everyone's benefit, and not as an act of retribution or vengeance. We are better than that. Or are we?

Yes and no.

I think prison should have different levels according to how many times you have committed the offence.
Yes by all means we should try your approach but for repeat offenders eventually we have to get tougher as they are a menace to society.

Sadly some people are just that.

 

[_ST]

@cm1179 yes I agree, prisoners sometimes do get more of a chance to learn than some others in society.

The problem is finding the balance. If there is no oppurtunity in prison then the majority of people will say " no wonder people are reoffending, they have no chance of getting work and qualifications" however some come out of prison and do get work and start a new life.

Then we get the other side of the coin, where people complain that they are getting qualifications when all they have done for society is steal, deal drugs or hurt people. Catch 22 really.

 

[PMKeates]

I was once asked "Do you think crime is caused by evil people or bad social conditions?". I replied "evil people". Looking back, I'm ashamed for saying that. I'm now of the opinion that it's poor social conditions that cause the majority of crime, except probably murder. Murder is usually caused by extreme emotion, but even that can often be due to the piling stress and tension of difficult social circumstances.

Most people who are healthy and wealthy do not commit crimes. The profile of the common offender will be someone who has grown up in poverty, maybe suffered from abuse, has a poor education and other similar factors. If education in prisons is a way we can attempt to mitigate one of those factors, then I think it is a great idea. However, I think our foremost duty is to address the issues at the root. We need a better education system, and one that has to be able to intervene with problem children at a much earlier stage. It was clear when I was 10 years old who the unruly kids were - I'm sure a qualified adult could spot the signs of problems many years, maybe even decades, before they bear fruit.

 

[Jonny69]

If someone wants to learn then let them learn.

 

[Gackt]

I'm a strong proponent of rehabiliation/re-education, so yes, they should be offered opportunities. Not over the non-criminal population, though, they should be served first.

 

[meghatronic]

50/50 time.

Hard labour / personal development.

 

[Glaucus]

do you think prisoners should be obtaining qualifications or breaking rocks?

Both.

education should be a massive part of Jail.

There is little point release criminals back to the same lifestyle. They need a change or area and opportunities. Education fullfills the opportunities part.

 

[PMKeates]

50/50 time.

Hard labour / personal development.

I'm not sure of the need for hard labour. I think it will just breed resentment and be counter-productive.

 

[cymatty]

I'm not sure of the need for hard labour. I think it will just breed resentment and be counter-productive.

Maybe not hard labour but I am sure they can do something productive.

Why cant we have chain gangs cleaning the streets etc like they do in the US?

 

[PMKeates]

Why cant we have chain gangs cleaning the streets etc like they do in the US?

I just see that as society admitting it's failure. As I said before, I believe the vast majority of criminals are so because of poor social conditions. We breed poverty and lawlessness and then humiliate those who suffer because of it. We should be holding these people up as symbols of why we need to change and why we need to improve things for everyone. Helping them with education and skills training, enabling them to join society and be a happy and producing member of it, will give everyone involved a much greater sense of satisfaction than having them dust the streets for 2 years, and then re-offend because crime is all they know and understand.

Those at the bottom of society are those most in need of assistance.

 

[cymatty]

Those at the bottom of society are those most in need of assistance.

I agree with the fact that they need training and need an education and help to stop them re-offending. However I think they should help to give back to society after taking away from it, so cleaning of street through the day and studying at night.

Seems a fair compromise to me.

 

[I get around]

i feel they are getting more than an honest chance, they're getting more opportunities than quite a lot of people. they probably get a better medical service than a lot of people too. i know we are a humane country (and rightly so) i just think we get our priorities extremely backwards a lot of the time

How is stopping repeat offence gonna be low on priorities though?

No repeat offence, lower crime figures, guys working, paying tax into the system. Less strain on the prison system = less tax money.

It just makes perfect sense, why only punish when you can rehabilitate?

Prisoners are free to take up education in their spare time and encourages, they don't get time off working. Thats how it works, they don't just doss about in a classroom or a cell all day.

 

[Mucky_Pup]

All priviledges they currently have should be removed, and if they want them back or some of them, they should have to earn them either by completing vocational and educational courses, or being productive.

 

[Glaucus]

I agree with the fact that they need training and need an education and help to stop them re-offending. However I think they should help to give back to society after taking away from it, so cleaning of street through the day and studying at night.

disagree kind of. I think it should be more to teach them a good days work, rather than giving back to society. In which case if they want to do education you could perhaps do 4 days education with 2 days work. Or something.

 

[Vonhelmet]

It's worth paying for them to be trained, etc, because they will then be less of a burden on - and ideally a benefit to - society when they come out.

 

[wordy]

The 1st thing I want them to learn in prison is the difference between right and wrong. If they want to better themselves with courses etc, then once they are out and earning over a certain wage then they should pay back the course fee.

And prison should be about punishment otherwise whats the point?

 

[The Running Man]

yes they should be able to earn qualifications...

yes they should have to repay fees after they leave and begin earning... like a student loan...

i.e why would you charge money to students who have not committed crimes to learn but then offer this service free of charge to inmates who have committed (usually) serious crime?

 

[Glaucus]

And prison should be about punishment otherwise whats the point?

Keeping public safe and rehabilitation. Jail is not just punishment.

And if you charged for courses you would have a lower rehabilitation level and is pretty pointless anyway.

i.e why would you charge money to students who have not committed crimes to learn but then offer this service free of charge to inmates who have committed (usually) serious crime?

Lower education is free. They are in prison unable to earn money. Charging them achieves little and lessens the chance of successful rehabilitation.

 

[Vonhelmet]

And prison should be about punishment otherwise whats the point?

Solely punishing people doesn't work. Re-offending (when did it become trendy to call this recidivism?) rates alone should be enough to show you that.

If you only punish people, without teaching them alternative behaviour, things will never get better. It's all well and good saying that these people should know right from wrong, but there's a lot more to that than just assuming someone knows it and then beating them, figuratively speaking, for their transgressions.