prisoners earning qualifications whilst serving their sentence

titaniumx3 · 28 Jan 2010 at 20:15

Given the problem of overpopulation, these are the people who should be culled first.

wordy · 28 Jan 2010 at 20:19

AcidHell2 said:
It's not free they are being incarcerated for long periods of time. Unable to earn money or gain work experience or promote themselves.

Jail should be about public protection 1st.

Then you can scrobble about punishment or rehabilitation. I would say rehabilitation again is far more important.

As punishment is being locked up unable to do anything normal and served with a minimum sentence.

Prisoners are already losing a large part of their life and are unable to make money, gain skills or get promotions. So asking them to pay is stupid. When they are released they should have the best chance of going straight and that means education without huge unworkable fees.

But they are locked up becuase they are criminals. no one asked them to go out and commit crimes.

How far do we go because of fear of prisoners re-offending, free education? create well paying jobs for them? give them free housing? cars to get from these houses to these created jobs?

Glaucus · 28 Jan 2010 at 20:22

wordy said:
But they are locked up becuase they are criminals. no one asked them to go out and commit crimes.

How far do we go because of fear of prisoners re-offending, free education? create well paying jobs for them? give them free housing? cars to get from these houses to these created jobs?

we don't have to bend over backwards for them. But we should give them a good chance. So yes free education. Especially as most people get free education anyway.

And just like anyone , there is free help on interviews, cvs and other help.

Orcish-Horde · 28 Jan 2010 at 20:36

chiLLZ said:
you talk about some of them leaving jail at some point, broken. if they are not rehabilitated then how are they going to stay away from crime? if they cant say that they spent their time in prison studying and trying to make something of themselves how will they ever be employed? would you want to pay more tax in the long run when they all go back to prison again and again so the population is increased because there is a prison lifestyle. theres nothing liberal about rehabilitation its not only about helping a prisoner into free society its about having less prisoners and more productive members of society. it would be liberal if there was no punishment factor.

punishment is the start of rehabilitation. education and support is also rehabilitation. it happens to be a fact that sometimes what helps a prisoner helps society.

Like I said in my last post, its not about deterrent or punishment. Its all about removing them and their effects of society. The only education they should recieve is that if they choose to live outside what society view as acceptable they will be removed from society.

A.N.Other · 28 Jan 2010 at 20:39

tntcoder said:
Yes, but they should pay back the education cost once earning.

I think that's a fair thing. I don't see why a university student should have to pay their tuition fees when a prisoner should not.

Stewy · 28 Jan 2010 at 20:43

Voltar · 28 Jan 2010 at 20:45

tntcoder said:
Yes, but they should pay back the education cost once earning.

Also should be able to do degree etc with agreement of a university if good enough to do so.

Glaucus · 28 Jan 2010 at 20:45

A.N.Other said:
I think that's a fair thing. I don't see why a university student should have to pay their tuition fees when a prisoner should not.

But they aren't comparable. They don't have the same job opportunities. Same wages. Same time in working life to pay it off. Most education is free.

Dolph · 28 Jan 2010 at 20:48

A.N.Other said:
I think that's a fair thing. I don't see why a university student should have to pay their tuition fees when a prisoner should not.

I don't see why uni students should pay tuition fees, but then I also don't see why having masses of the population going to university through degree dilution is a good thing...

Glaucus · 28 Jan 2010 at 20:50

Dolph said:
I don't see why uni students should pay tuition fees, but then I also don't see why having masses of the population going to university through degree dilution is a good thing...

So true. Uni is not the only way and is far to over subscribed.

Stewy · 28 Jan 2010 at 21:04

/Anal hat

Why am I paying 10k a year to do a degree, when people in prison get to do it for free?

/Anal hat.

Glaucus · 28 Jan 2010 at 21:09

StewartMG said:
Why am I paying 10k a year to do a degree, when people in prison get to do it for free?

because you aren't in prison, don't have a criminal record. Do you want to swap places? Removal of all your freedoms. Wreck your chances of ever getting top jobs ect.

Stewy · 28 Jan 2010 at 21:20

Don't break the law then?

Glaucus · 28 Jan 2010 at 21:32

StewartMG said:
Don't break the law then?

They have and they are in prison. Now what do we do with them. That's how you need to think. Not I feel hard done by.

Do you want prison to be totally about punishment and when they are released the chances are they re-offend go back and cost you loads more money.

Or do you want a system that trys to help and change people so the chances are they do not re-offend and do not cost us in the long run.

Stewy · 28 Jan 2010 at 21:38

Surely if prisons were notoriously hard / difficult places to live then the chances of them offending in the first place would be lower?

Giving them a free education just makes it a more attractive destination...

Dolph · 28 Jan 2010 at 21:39

StewartMG said:
Surely if prisons were notoriously hard / difficult places to live then the chances of them offending in the first place would be lower?

Giving them a free education just makes it a more attractive destination...

Only if you're happy to commit a psychologists fallacy instead of actually looking at the evidence.

Glaucus · 28 Jan 2010 at 21:45

StewartMG said:
Surely if prisons were notoriously hard / difficult places to live then the chances of them offending in the first place would be lower?

Giving them a free education just makes it a more attractive destination...

Look at the evidence.

Short term education is free anyway.
Who in there right mind would commit a crime that is serious enough for long term education and remove all there freedoms, criminal record and being barred from many jobs on release. It in no way shape or form is going to make it more attractive.

Crixus00 · 28 Jan 2010 at 22:24

Unless they are to be locked up forever then i see the whole prison process as rehabilitation. So, in cases like these, yes, they should.

When these people get released they need a direction - something they can contribute to society with.

hammering rocks for all of time as punishment aint going to do it.

Vonhelmet · 28 Jan 2010 at 22:41

StewartMG said:
/Anal hat

Why am I paying 10k a year to do a degree, when people in prison get to do it for free?

/Anal hat.

Your uni degree should be worth more than an NVQ at the end of the day, and you should have much better career prospects. If you wind up with worse career prospects than a reformed criminal, I'm not sure you should be pointing the finger at the criminal, or the system.

Infam0us · 30 Jan 2010 at 01:36

Nickg said:
yes they should be able to earn qualifications...

yes they should have to repay fees after they leave and begin earning... like a student loan...

i.e why would you charge money to students who have not committed crimes to learn but then offer this service free of charge to inmates who have committed (usually) serious crime?

Have you not asked that girl out from asda yet?