VW Phaeton (This threads for Firestar 3X)

[86JR]

Because a standard W12 clearly struggles to pick up speed.

But clearly everyone wants it to be as fast as an Audi.

Phaeton is a heavy heavy car its power - weight cant be great, does anyone know what this is for this car (w12) ?

I would love one but it would have to be the V10 TDI for me which they no longer make. 500lb/ft in a phaeton = yummy.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Its the 3.2 thats slow, the W12 is fine.

 

[cymatty]

That is the one you want.

 

[Moeks]

Why in the name of mercy would you do that to a Phaeton ...sounds more appropriate for a Le Mans car.

 

[The Mad Rapper]

Whilst this is true to a point its fair to see even the ride quality of a 10 year old Mercedes is better than a brand new Astra, and a brand new Astras interior is 'worn' from the factory in terms of cheap fit and finish and rattles whereas a 5 year old Audi is far better.

Plus some people look after cars. If you are careful there is no reason why the interior would get damaged or 'worn' during your ownership.

I wasn't talking about interior wear so much as mechanical wear. Of course I accept the point you make, a quality built interior ought to be significantly more robust than one on a cheaper brand.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I wasn't talking about interior wear so much as mechanical wear. Of course I accept the point you make, a quality built interior ought to be significantly more robust than one on a cheaper brand.

I beleive the same applies to mechanical wear.

I have encountered no mechanical wear on my car that was not fixed by paying somebody to fix it. Paying somebody less, infact, than the depreciation on an Astra in order to fix it.

I will be very unhappy if circumstances ever force me into a brand new Vauxhall instead of a 4-5 year old Audi, BMW, etc.

 

[Eddmac]

Its the 3.2 thats slow, the W12 is fine.

The 3.2 Phaeton (while admittedly the base engine in the range) does 150mph and is quicker (at motorway speeds upwards) than a renaultsport megane ( i know because i raced one)

That may seem slow to you Fox, to other people I would think it would seem quite sufficient.

BTW, I don't own mine anymore, It departed our household in late 2008 after nearly 4 years of extremely happy ownership. (The longest I have ever kept a car)

 

[[TW]Fox]

I'm sorry but there is simply no way a Pheaton 3.2 is quicker than a Megane RenaultSport 225 at anything other than top speed where bhp is the only thing that matters.

The Megane is one of the most accomplished hot hatchbacks around. The Pheaton weighs 2 tonnes.

I'd go so far as to say its *considerably* slower.

The Pheaton has 108bhp/tonne. This is middle of the road family saloon territory! A Megane RenaultSport has 166bhp/tonne.

It simply isnt going to be quicker. It isnt even going to be approaching the same league!

0-60 in 9.something seconds. A standing quarter in 17 seconds. I cant find 0-100 but I suspect its much longer than 20 seconds. It's not a fast car by any stretch of the imagination, its not even mildly quick.

 

[Eddmac]

But clearly everyone wants it to be as fast as an Audi.

Phaeton is a heavy heavy car its power - weight cant be great, does anyone know what this is for this car (w12) ?

I would love one but it would have to be the V10 TDI for me which they no longer make. 500lb/ft in a phaeton = yummy.

Why in gods name does averyone want their comfortable luxury saloon to be fast? If you want a fast car, buy a sports car, If you want extreme comfort buy a luxury saloon.

(For me, 150mph and quick enough off the mark not to hold anyone up, is fast enough and thats the slowest one )

 

[Eddmac]

I'm sorry but there is simply no way a Pheaton 3.2 is quicker than a Megane RenaultSport 225 at anything other than top speed where bhp is the only thing that matters.

The Megane is one of the most accomplished hot hatchbacks around. The Pheaton weighs 2 tonnes.

I'd go so far as to say its *considerably* slower.

The Pheaton has 108bhp/tonne. This is middle of the road family saloon territory! A Megane RenaultSport has 166bhp/tonne.

It simply isnt going to be quicker. It isnt even going to be approaching the same league!

0-60 in 9.something seconds. A standing quarter in 17 seconds. I cant find 0-100 but I suspect its much longer than 20 seconds. It's not a fast car by any stretch of the imagination, its not even mildly quick.

Yes yes yes, all figures you quote are from standing starts, which as i have said before the Phaeton isnt good at (Its actually 2.25 tons), what I DID say was that "From motorway speeds up" it's quicker than the megane, or at least the one i raced lol

 

[[TW]Fox]

Why in gods name does averyone want their comfortable luxury saloon to be fast? If you want a fast car, buy a sports car, If you want extreme comfort buy a luxury saloon.

Because a good luxury saloon should offer a good blend of comfort and performance. It doesn't need to tear up the tarmac or hit 60 in 5 seconds but you need enough power that anything you wish to do - be it an overtake or whatever - can be performed effortlessly.

(For me, 150mph and quick enough off the mark not to hold anyone up, is fast enough and thats the slowest one )

A minute ago it was quicker than a Megane Renaultsport now its just 'quick enough to not hold anyone off' please make your mind up?

 

[[TW]Fox]

Yes yes yes, all figures you quote are from standing starts, which as i have said before the Phaeton isnt good at (Its actually 2.25 tons), what I DID say was that "From motorway speeds up" it's quicker than the megane

No, it really isnt. How can it possibly be? It's 50bhp/tonne down! How is that going to accelerate quicker?

It weighs considerably more than the Megane and even the peak power is just 15bhp greater. Thats it - just 15bhp more yet over HALF A TONNE heavier.

How is it quicker?!

 

[Moeks]

I'd go so far as to say its *considerably* slower.

The Pheaton has 108bhp/tonne. This is middle of the road family saloon territory! A Megane RenaultSport has 166bhp/tonne.

It simply isnt going to be quicker. It isnt even going to be approaching the same league!

0-60 in 9.something seconds. A standing quarter in 17 seconds. I cant find 0-100 but I suspect its much longer than 20 seconds. It's not a fast car by any stretch of the imagination, its not even mildly quick.

Jesus, lol ….that’s pretty damn underpowered for it’s weight, even my Jag with the 'small' V8 has 164bhp per ton. Sounds to me like a Megane 225 would basically annihilate a V6 Phaeton in pretty well all performance tests.

 

[Eddmac]

Jesus, lol ….that’s pretty damn underpowered for it’s weight, even my Jag with the 'small' V8 has 164bhp per ton. Sounds to me like a Megane 225 would basically annihilate a V6 Phaeton in pretty well all performance tests.

yea yea yea, everyone is fixated with 0-60 and power to weight, acceleration also has to do with gearing and the megane is geared for 0-60 take offs, while the Phaeton is geared for Autobahns. While it is definate that the megane stuffs the phaeton in all performance figures normally quoted, the one I raced at motorway speeds and above I out accelerated, note I say motorway speeds and above and not from the traffic lights to the next set of traffic lights, or from this bend to the next one?

 

[cymatty]

Jesus, lol ….that’s pretty damn underpowered for it’s weight, even my Jag with the 'small' V8 has 164bhp per ton. Sounds to me like a Megane 225 would basically annihilate a V6 Phaeton in pretty well all performance tests.

My old Saxo VTR was 108bhp per tonne.

 

[Eddmac]

My old Saxo VTR was 108bhp per tonne.

Yes and it too would eat a phaeton off the lights

 

[[TW]Fox]

the one I raced at motorway speeds and above I out accelerated, note I say motorway speeds and above and not from the traffic lights to the next set of traffic lights, or from this bend to the next one?

Several issues here.

Firstly how did you know you were 'racing'? Lets face it - even the most baseball cap wearing of Megane Renaultsport drivers is probably not going to try and race a Pheaton normally. Why would he any more than he'd attempt to race an Golf Estate? It just wouldnt be on his radar, would it. It's not as if you were driving along with a RACE ME big spoiler and GTI TURBO badge on the back, is it. Did the driver telephone you to say 'Jolly ho old chap that was a spiffing race'? Or perhaps you pulled onto the hard shoulder to discuss the race?

Don't make the mistake most people do of thinking that because somebody appears to be accelerating hard they are obviously racing you..

Secondly, what gear was he in? Flat to the floor in 5th and its not going anywhere fast as its a turbocharged car.

Thirdly this is pretty much like me trying to claim that, at Motorway speeds, my 530i will have a Subaru Impreza P1. 'Yea but the Impreza is geared for 0-60...'.

 

[Fett]

Why in gods name does averyone want their comfortable luxury saloon to be fast?

I remember being tailgated by a Renault Megane Sport (the turbo one) at about 70mph so i moveed over to let him past, i moved back behind him and sat with him to around 130 mph, then flashed my lights at him to let me past he was not happy, but as he was near Vmax i passed him with no effort lol

 

[Eddmac]

No, it really isnt. How can it possibly be? It's 50bhp/tonne down! How is that going to accelerate quicker?

It weighs considerably more than the Megane and even the peak power is just 15bhp greater. Thats it - just 15bhp more yet over HALF A TONNE heavier.

How is it quicker?!

Well Fox, it is quicker (in the specific instance i have stated many many times now) because it is geared differently, look up gearing mate, it may help you understand.

 

[[TW]Fox]

It's not quicker and even gearing won't make up for the massive power to weight deficit.

I do like how the fact you stayed on his bumper means you were 'racing'. How do you know he was in maximum attack mode? I know I'm rarely in maximum attack mode when I'm accelerating on the Motorway.