Terry Pratchett ready to be test case for suicide law

As long as it;s clear that they want to die (not like that case were she killed/tried to kill her son in a coma or something)
 
Actually lying in a hospital bed with any number of conditions I suspect it is very difficult to commit suicide.
 
The Funktopus said:
My memory of the day he died was of an atrophied, sallow shadow of a man, his eyes dulled with the pain but wide with terror fighting to draw his last ragged breaths from an oxygen mask whilst using the last of his strength to cry out in agony. It was truly the most traumatic thing I've ever experienced and will probably ever experience. If the option were there for euthanasia should I ever find myself in a similar situation to my old man, I'd have no hesitation taking it.
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Jesus, sorry to hear that but I'd like to play devils advocate for a second, do you think there is a possibility that we as humans need these experiences in our life on some level, is that not part of life?, part of how we grow, helping to build our strength of character, that must have been terrible watching your father endure that illness and I dread the day that I may have to endure such a tragedy but can you not draw any strength from it?, I think pain and suffering plays a key role in helping us become better people.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on that point, or any others peoples thoughts tbh.
 
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If someone wishes to end their existence even if they're perfectly fine then thats their choice and to be more humane we should provide this service on the nhs or something, obviously when it becomes legal there should be some logic to it so as long as they have no one depending on them like a child and stuff like that i don't see any problem really.
 
lowrider007 said:
Jesus, sorry to here that but I like to play devils advocate for a second, do you think there is a possibility that we as humans need these experiences in our life on some level, is that not part of life?, part of how we grow, helping to build our strength of character, that must have been terrible watching your father endure that illness and I dread the day I may have to endure such a tragedy but can you not draw any strength from it?, I think pain and suffering plays a key role in helping us become better people.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on that point, or any others peoples thoughts tbh.
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I'd agree with this, to some degree. I read a paper my housemate was critiqueing at uni, containing a very memorable passage (most likely repeated many times in various situations) about how the highs of life are dulled or even irrelevant without lows to which they can be compared, and to truly appreciate bliss an individual must have experienced sorrow at least as great in intensity. There was no mention of it working vice versa, which I found strange. For some reason the phrase 'liminality' springs to mind, though I'm pretty sure that's more related to the subject matter of the paper(being the intermediate phases of life where status is insecure).
 
lowrider007 said:
Jesus, sorry to here that but I'd like to play devils advocate for a second, do you think there is a possibility that we as humans need these experiences in our life on some level, is that not part of life?, part of how we grow, helping to build our strength of character, that must have been terrible watching your father endure that illness and I dread the day I may have to endure such a tragedy but can you not draw any strength from it?, I think pain and suffering plays a key role in helping us become better people.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on that point, or any others peoples thoughts tbh.
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I most definitely agree with you, in that I think my dad's death affected me in a profound but positive way. Before his death I rarely gave thought to the future, I had no motivation or self discipline and no sense of purpose to be honest, and as such I'd allowed myself to balloon to 24st 7lb, and well on the way to an early grave. The trauma of the event itself seemed to serve as an almighty wake up call, and instilled a sense of urgency in sorting myself out and the will to follow it through, in that life had already thrown one of the worst things it could at me, and I'd gotten through it. Today, I'm down to 15st 8lb's and still losing, and well on the way to fulfilling my ambition of one day completing the Great North Run to raise money for charities like Cancer Research UK in my dad's memory. I honestly don't think I could have done it before my dad died.

My dad was always a very disciplined person when he was alive, and I'd like to think that when he left this world, he somehow passed that onto me. However, at the same time I'm somewhat saddened to think that it took my dad's death to snap me out of my own complacency and confront my own problems, I only wish I could have found the strength to do it when he was still with us.
 
The Funktopus said:
I most definitely agree with you, in that I think my dad's death affected me in a profound but positive way. Before his death I rarely gave thought to the future, I had no motivation or self discipline and no sense of purpose to be honest, and as such I'd allowed myself to balloon to 24st 7lb, and well on the way to an early grave. The trauma of the event itself seemed to serve as an almighty wake up call, and instilled a sense of urgency in sorting myself out and the will to follow it through, in that life had already thrown one of the worst things it could at me, and I'd gotten through it. Today, I'm down to 15st 8lb's and still losing, and well on the way to fulfilling my ambition of one day completing the Great North Run to raise money for charities like Cancer Research UK in my dad's memory. I honestly don't think I could have done it before my dad died.

My dad was always a very disciplined person when he was alive, and I'd like to think that when he left this world, he somehow passed that onto me. However, at the same time I'm somewhat saddened to think that it took my dad's death to snap me out of my own complacency and confront my own problems, I only wish I could have found the strength to do it when he was still with us.
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Thank for sharing that, it would seem from your account that the suffering did help you, I'm sure your father would be proud to know that he helped you in such a way and that his passing wasn't just in vain, good luck with the North Run, don't give up on that, and I hope things turn out well for you.
 
A person has a right to decide whether they want to live or die. If a person commits suicide they are not charged for a crime, and I don't believe if that person wants their loved ones by their side, to be with them, or to assist them, those people should be charged either.

If a person is in constant pain, or terminally ill, or can no longer move/talk/eat/breathe on their own, I think it should be up to their will (if they made one) or their family as to what happens next, and that includes assisted suicide.

My mother has MS (Multiple Sclerosis) and I have seen her quality of life go up and down as much as a rollercoaster over the years, and I can only imagine what life would be like for someone worse off than her.
 
Fenris said:
No Humans are Humans. There is a reason for the distinction, complex language and the fact we use our brains to make decisions using weights like logic or our own conscience, rather than relying purely on instinct. We have issues to deal with such as thinking of the impact of our choices on others. Technology, rational thought, culture, debate, concept of our own mortality, there are more reasons than I have time to type.

Comparing an animal to a human is like comparing a Car to a Bicycle, we are superior in nearly every way, regardless of how you look at it. Actually quite a good comparison really if you take into account the effect our superiority has, need for fuel and pollution as a by product of our desire for "bigger and better" and the fact we eternally strive to better ourselves and further our own species.
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I disagree. We are just another member of the animal kingdom. Just because we are currently at the top of the hierarchy (at least on this planet) due to our intelligence and technology doesn't make us any different. Other animals have brains too, and show evidence of making decisions based on logic and reasoning too. Who's to say that they don't have rational thought or culture either? Other animals also have traditions such as marriage (I use the term lightly) and show emotion and compassion towards others.

Your car/bicycle comparison is quite narrow minded. There are other animal groups in the world who probably feel that they are superior to others too. Using an extreme example, think of all the species we have yet to discover and their prey. 'Superiority' is subjective. If you want me to be really pedantic, cars aren't necessarily better than bikes.

On your last point "the fact we eternally strive to better ourselves and further our own species" - what makes you think that other species don't do the same?
 
apeZ said:
I disagree. We are just another member of the animal kingdom. Just because we are currently at the top of the hierarchy (at least on this planet) due to our intelligence and technology doesn't make us any different. Other animals have brains too, and show evidence of making decisions based on logic and reasoning too. Who's to say that they don't have rational thought or culture either? Other animals also have traditions such as marriage (I use the term lightly) and show emotion and compassion towards others.

Your car/bicycle comparison is quite narrow minded. There are other animal groups in the world who probably feel that they are superior to others too. Using an extreme example, think of all the species we have yet to discover and their prey. 'Superiority' is subjective. If you want me to be really pedantic, cars aren't necessarily better than bikes.

On your last point "the fact we eternally strive to better ourselves and further our own species" - what makes you think that other species don't do the same?
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Animals are driven by instinct, they have no reason to want to better their species, for all they know their species consists of the 10/20 other members of it they run into in their lives, they're lives consist of Exist > Breed > Die, nothing else. Also please feel free to give me an example of an animal that has become more "advanced" over the last oo lets say 500 years, besides possible learning to use a differently shaped rock to break open nuts. Animals are constantly killed by things like deforestation, I think if they had any understand of preservation of their species they would have moved.

Yes of course animals have brains but beyond basic logical games and again, instinct driven actions, they don't do anything with them, they have no concept of good/evil and no conscience. They don't have "marriage" they have mates, all that proves is they stay in "packs" for their lives rather than mating with others, it is not a "tradition".

And no superiority is not subjective in this case, we are superior in EVERY way besides possibly the physical.

Also in my Care/Bike example I said that the car was not all good, which is the reason it is accurate.



If you want to continue this further do it in another thread.
 
Fenris said:
Blah Blah Blah... If you want to continue this further do it in another thread.
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Humans are driven by instinct, they have no reason to want to better their species, for all they know their species consists of the 6-7 billion other members of it that exists on their tiny planet, they're lives consist of Exist > Breed (sometimes not even this) > Die, nothing else. Also please feel free to give me an example of an human that has become more "advanced" over the last oo lets say 500 years, besides possible learning to use differently shaped tools for their own conveinience. Humans are constantly killed by things like starvation, their own stupidity, and each other, I think if they had any understand of preservation of their species they would have learned by now.

Yes of course Humans have brains but beyond basic logical games and again, instinct driven actions, they don't do anything with them, they have no concept of good/evil and no conscience. They don't have "marriage" they have mates, all that proves is they stay in "packs" for their lives rather than mating with others, it is not a "tradition".

And no superiority is not subjective in this case, we are superior in EVERY way besides possibly the physical.

Sincerely,
Your local Alien Observers.

PS We left your bad grammer and spelling mostly in-tact, your "superiorness" ;)
 
Fenris said:
I knew there was a reason I didn't believe in aliens, they're all petty and immature.
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So, you dont have any counter point then?

:D


On topic: As for euthanasia, its quite simple really: If someone wants to kill themselves, then there should be no issue in providing them with the ability to pull their own plug, should they somehow lack the power to take their own life.

Even someone in the most severe condition can be given some form of switch. How it is rigged is irrelevent, as long as they activate it themselves.
 
Angleboy said:
its quite simple really: If someone wants to kill themselves, then there should be no issue in providing them with the ability to pull their own plug
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That's all very well, the problem then is whether they are of sound mind or have possible been pressured into the decision. There is nothing "simple" about it, everything involved with euthanasia is surrounded by issues and complications. It should be everything BUT easy for someone to kill themselves, it should be the last possible course of action and never "simple".
 
You havnt said a single thing wich is pertinent to the individual wishing to end their own lives - Being pressured into something is not Euathenasia.

The only thing you are doing is enforcing your own beliefs on someone else.
 
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