Has The F22 Met Its Match ?

The Tu144 also flow before Concorde and used a different type of Delta wing and canards.

Only by obtaining the plans for Concorde via espionage (and the French DST secret service being very lax). There was a very interesting programme about Koncordski on C4 years ago (Cutting Edge or Secret History I think) which went over it all.

Due to there being no equivalents in Russian measurements to Western standards, they had to approximate and work round problems. The first iteration of the Tu-144 did not have the retractable canards, and by working round problems the Russians had got the wing design - specifically the ogival shape of the wing leading edge - badly wrong. They got it wrong because it did not general the vorticies over the upper surface of the wing at high angles of attack, which Concorde used to lower it's landing speed to levels equivalent to conventional airliners (747 etc.). Because Concorde landed at such a steep angle, the droop-snoot nose was required for pilots to be able to see the runway!

That is not to say that the Tu-144 was not a fine aircraft in it's own right. The retractable canards were a solution to the lack of lift at low speeds and were a original feature which owed no debt to Concorde. Indeed the French employed a Mirage Photo Reconnaisance jet during the Koncordski's display at the 1973 Paris Airshow (which led to the crash of the latter as it took evasive maneuvers to avoid it when it got too close) to study the canards closely, and they were later used on French military jets. The Tu-144 was also larger, faster and had more powerful engines than Concorde.

[/breath]
 
The main problem with the Tu144 were the engines. They used turbofans in the first version which had massive fuel consumption and did not use fuel to cool critical parts of the airframe and hence needed additional cooling equipment which weighed more.

However if you do look back in history the Russian aircraft industry in the 1920s to 1940s had some brilliant engineers and some potentially cutting edge aircraft in the pipeline.

Stalin killed many of them for political reasons because he had a dislike for aircraft designers which it seems was due to a fear of flying AFAIK.

I think that this attitude that the Russians copied everything is a bit silly. If people have a look at many aircraft around the world many designers came to similar conclusions due to the technological limitations of the time.

You only have to look at the 727 which you could say copied the Trident.

The same could even go with the Miles M52 and the Bell X1.

Even the 767 could be deemed a copy of an A300.
 
Last edited:
Isnt the next gen of fighters, pilot less stealth freak flying things that can do mach 6 and are remotely operated by 13 year old kids with xbox controllers?
 
IIRC in simulated dogfights between the F22 Raptor and the Eurofighter Typhoon the F22 wins most (but not all) of the time due in part to its better agility at high angles of attack (close to stalling) thanks to the thrust vectoring engines. As has already been stated its probably a moot point as actual dogfight engagements with these kinds of planes are very unlikely anyway as their BVR (beyond visual range) capability is so good you're probably not going to survive long enough to actually eyeball one and get into a dogfight.

The Eurofighter Typhoon is a much more flexible weapons platform though, can carry a more varied payload and is much cheaper.

The F22 was created to be a specialised air dominance fighter (but then so was the F15 and that was further developed into the F15E Strike Eagle), with fewer compromises than the F35 (in any of its 3 variants). Once you've shot down all the enemy planes though its not going to be nearly as useful as a multi-role fighter.

P
 
Don't the Typhoon's systems do most of the flying anyway

Practically all modern fighter jets are completely controlled by sophisticated on board computers, the pilots simply tell the computer what they want to do and they adjust the required settings / parameters.
NO pilot is quick enough to manually control modern day fighter jets, if the on board computer was to fail (pretty impossible as they have 2 backups and various fail safes), however if they were to fail the pilot would need to eject or he would crash and burn :p
 
it'll be a POS tbh. I'd like to be proved wrong what with russia being a very different country to what is was but experience has shown time and time again most of their weoponry, no matter how good on paper has proved awful in service - long delays / reliability issues / lack of spares / money to operate them.

Yes they've made some pretty damn good aircraft in the last 50 years but as far as I'm concerned other than in the opening period of vietnam they've never had there hardware up against a significant western opposition. I'd also wager that the best stuff they've done has been comparatively low tech even at inception / during use.

I always thought Russia had two useful exports for the world - vodka and the AK. I might be peresuaded to add young women eager to live a modern western lifestyle but that depends if my other half was in ear shot.
 
it'll be a POS tbh. I'd like to be proved wrong what with russia being a very different country to what is was but experience has shown time and time again most of their weoponry, no matter how good on paper has proved awful in service - long delays / reliability issues / lack of spares / money to operate them.

Yes they've made some pretty damn good aircraft in the last 50 years but as far as I'm concerned other than in the opening period of vietnam they've never had there hardware up against a significant western opposition. I'd also wager that the best stuff they've done has been comparatively low tech even at inception / during use.

I always thought Russia had two useful exports for the world - vodka and the AK. I might be peresuaded to add young women eager to live a modern western lifestyle but that depends if my other half was in ear shot.

The RPG7 and BM21 Grad come to mind.

Even the RPG7 is being built for the US army:

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/special-weapons/usa-made-rpg-7-rockets/

In a lot of cases the superior training and tactics of our forces is a big factor too.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom