Thats right another IT (MCSA) career course advice thread..

ninjabib

ninjabib

ninjabib

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Hi.

Looking for some advice here.

Just turned 30 years of age (unluckily). Have no degree or A levels. Just good GCSE's and some NVQs in things i have no interest in but gained through past jobs (not IT related). Have just gone to job from job with no real direction and i am sick of it. I want to do something with my life now at long last. 12 years of various admin, customer service or sales jobs are more than enough for any human being.


Looking to get into IT as a career. I've had PC's for over 12 years now and am competent but would not class myself as an IT professional.

Been speaking to a company who are offering courses in various IT certifications and the MCSA took my interest.

This company will pay %80 of the course fee upfront and help me find an employer (so they say). Once i am on a salary of above £25k they will then expect the fee paid back in 24 monthly installments.

Mainly looking for feedback on things like

1) Is this a worthwhile cert to get?
2) Would job prospects be good, perhaps is the MCSA cert valued across a multitude of IT roles.
3) If the MCSA is poo, what certs are most useful?

I have no experience in networking really but am also interested in this to give you some idea.

Many thanks for your time and advice!
Gaz
 
It's a good place to start, although MCSA is technically for Server 2003. You might want to look into MCITP: Enterprise or something similar.

It's the same set of MS Exams just the new range for Server 2008. You get taught the same things pretty much except not the stuff they haven't kept and the new stuff that isn't in 2003 :)

Just my two cents, quite a few companies like you to have something but real experience far outweighs these exams, imo.
 
ninjabib said:
MCSE also interests me, this seems to be a 'meatier' certification. Is this a good one to go for?
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Meatier in terms of it is Systems Engineer rather than Systems Admin, so you will be building systems from scratch and probably learn a lot more in the process.

MCSA and MCSE are for Server 2003 environments as stated above. If you are looking to start now I'd recommend the Server 2008 equivalents which is MCITP: Server Admin/Enterprise Admin, etc.

That is of course, unless you specifically want to learn about 2003 and not the new stuff. The basics are covered in all exams so what you learn in the new can be backwards applied (mostly) to the old. Same the other way around except you wont' learn about RoDC's on MCSA/E for example.
 
Places like Deutsche Bank still have thousands of Windows 2000 servers, so I wouldn't be rushing into the 2008 qualifications yet.

Contrary to OcUK forum members, businesses don't upgrade at the drop of a hat - don't fix what ain't broke comes to mind. In addition, the actual upgrading process itself takes a lot of resources, potentially causes disruption (if the upgrade breaks something), and is costly.
 
Trust me, IT isn't the way to go, I was like you, but at about 26 got into I.T and now im fed up of it, honestly, people moaning at you all the time because this or that doesn't work, their job depends on them doing this or that, why can't it be fixed this instant etc.

Honestly! I wouldn't say otherwise! Im 29 and looking to get OUT of I.T!
 
I'd avoid pursuing the course through a compay unless it's a reputable one with very positive reviews and a decent pass rate. I appreciate some people find it difficult to motivate themselves without deadlines but most should be able to complete a MCSE/MCSA course using the wideley available books and a bit of practical experience.

There is also software available that simulates desktops, includes instructional videos and has sample questions for you to test your knowledge - these can be beneficial if you struggle with certain aspects.

I am almost certain that buying all the books and software, if needed, will be far, far cheaper than going through a company.
 
How much are they charging you for the course?

TBH if you have no experience then you would struggle to walk straight into a job paying 25k+, despite what the company say.

The usual route for teh guys who worked for me was, Service Desk (answering phone queries, would probably be an easy route in for you, just bang on about customer service. Some of the best service desk people i have employed had no IT experience but came from a customer facing role), then Desktop Support and then specialise into server/network/DBA/Programming etc.
 
kefkef said:
How much are they charging you for the course?

TBH if you have no experience then you would struggle to walk straight into a job paying 25k+, despite what the company say.

The usual route for teh guys who worked for me was, Service Desk (answering phone queries, would probably be an easy route in for you, just bang on about customer service. Some of the best service desk people i have employed had no IT experience but came from a customer facing role), then Desktop Support and then specialise into server/network/DBA/Programming etc.
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I have years of experience, but that didn't help on it's own when I needed a new job. You *will* need some kind of relevant qualification in addition.
 
I think the course was just over £2000 including all materials and exams. I know its more because its class based but (and i may have got the wrong end of the stick here) they find employment for you within IT as 1st line support or something very basic whilst your gaining your qualifications.

This a common benefit offeredwith IT recruitment/training companies or a load of nonsense used to sell the course to me?
 
ninjabib said:
I think the course was just over £2000 including all materials and exams. I know its more because its class based but (and i may have got the wrong end of the stick here) they find employment for you within IT as 1st line support or something very basic whilst your gaining your qualifications.

This a common benefit offeredwith IT recruitment/training companies or a load of nonsense used to sell the course to me?
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Doing it on your own will save money, as the exams are circa £500-600 and books perhaps £200 (if you buy all of them at about £30 apiece brand new). Although you do get a few months of Windows Server free with them.
 
sr4470 said:
I have years of experience, but that didn't help on it's own when I needed a new job. You *will* need some kind of relevant qualification in addition.
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Not sure what role or where you are working so cant really comment on that, but all the job descriptions i have written over the past 7 years have always been worded 'xxx qualification or relevant industry sector experience' or 'xxx qualification or the ability to achieve within set timescale', thus meaning i wont miss out on a candidate with good experience who hasnt got the qualifications for whatever reason.

Having the qualification can be a differentiator between two candidates with the same experience, but that is about it until you get quite far up the technical ladder. And without any experience in that sector you wont even get an interview (doesnt apply to the OP for first line support, as a lot of that is now based around customer service which he has experince of).

Regarding the original question, as sr4470 says, you could do it yourself for less. Self study is a good route if you can discipline yourself to do it. Personally i would not go down the MCSA route.

The advice i would give is go out and get yourself a job with an IT company as first line support for a year or two, self study for MCDST (Desktop Technician, if you have a good understanding of XP/Vista/W7 your halfway there already), get a job as a desktop techie then look to specialise. If the organisation is halfway decent by that point you will probably get funded training as part of your personal development.
 
kefkef said:
Not sure what role or where you are working so cant really comment on that, but all the job descriptions i have written over the past 7 years have always been worded 'xxx qualification or relevant industry sector experience' or 'xxx qualification or the ability to achieve within set timescale', thus meaning i wont miss out on a candidate with good experience who hasnt got the qualifications for whatever reason.
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The money (and indeed jobs) aren't in the lower level support anymore, it's too crowded, and easy to outsource. That's why I'm studying analysis\design\servers\project management to climb up the ladder. I'm not sure where you're based but I've had absolutely zero success getting back into any kind of IT role. In fact, I can't even get any responses RE: menial jobs.

Given the choice of continuing to struggle on insecure, temporary warehouse contracts and bettering my knowledge, it was becoming clear which was the better option.
 
Im in the Yorkshire area. I work for the NHS in IT (not for CfH of the national Programme). It's worth keeping an eye on jobs.nhs.uk and search for key words itil, prince2, mcse etc, there are a few on there now. We advertise on there quite often for service desk staff as its hard to get people into that role as they all want to be a server/network engineer etc straight from Uni or after passing an exam (:D). Over the past 5yrs, at least 5 of 10 the permenant staff we have employed have moved upwards and have all had significant training paid for by us towards their personal and profesional development (ITIL, MCDST, CCNA, MCSE etc), the others are either still there or have left. We now have to use a lot of contracters as it's hard to get first line staff.
 
kefkef said:
Im in the Yorkshire area. I work for the NHS in IT (not for CfH of the national Programme). It's worth keeping an eye on jobs.nhs.uk and search for key words itil, prince2, mcse etc, there are a few on there now. We advertise on there quite often for service desk staff as its hard to get people into that role as they all want to be a server/network engineer etc straight from Uni or after passing an exam (:D). Over the past 5yrs, at least 5 of 10 the permenant staff we have employed have moved upwards and have all had significant training paid for by us towards their personal and profesional development (ITIL, MCDST, CCNA, MCSE etc), the others are either still there or have left. We now have to use a lot of contracters as it's hard to get first line staff.
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I don't live remotely near Yorkshire (try outer London), and how many of the jobs are actually filled by advertising as opposed to internal recommendation?

I've had a look at the NHS recruitment portal, 90% of the local vacancies are for nurses and management...the rest are reception-type duties that ask for, you guessed it, prior identical experience.
 
We fill a few vacancies internally, but it will state that on the job advert from us. More often it's recruit internally for one job, go external for the next. Fresh meat for the grinder....... :D
 
kefkef said:
We fill a few vacancies internally, but it will state that on the job advert from us. More often it's recruit internally for one job, go external for the next. Fresh meat for the grinder....... :D
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So why are there less vacancies in that region and higher unemployment?

I am meeting with some blue-chip firms next week though, so something positive may emerge from that.

Anyway let's not hijack the poor guy's thread any further.
 
sr4470 said:
I have years of experience, but that didn't help on it's own when I needed a new job. You *will* need some kind of relevant qualification in addition.
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I had no qualifications at all when getting this job, just 4.5 years in the business.

None of the other guys in my team had anything either, just experience.

Not saying it doesn't make things easier, I'm getting one or 2 things under my belt whilst the comany is paying, just that it's definitely not a requirement.

kefkef said:
The advice i would give is go out and get yourself a job with an IT company as first line support for a year or two, self study for MCDST (Desktop Technician, if you have a good understanding of XP/Vista/W7 your halfway there already), get a job as a desktop techie then look to specialise. If the organisation is halfway decent by that point you will probably get funded training as part of your personal development.
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Spot on imho. This quote needs to be saved for all the threads from people saying they want to get into fixing 'pooters :)
 
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Ev0 said:
I had no qualifications at all when getting this job, just 4.5 years in the business.

None of the other guys in my team had anything either, just experience.

Not saying it doesn't make things easier, I'm getting one or 2 things under my belt whilst the comany is paying, just that it's definitely not a requirement.
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They probably worked at larger firms that gave them exposure to a lot more users at once, and more complicated setups. Aside from the obvious point of geographical differences. As I said, it didn't work for me so I chose to diversify my skillset.
 
Well knowing where they came from not really, but guess it all depends on what the employer wants.

My wife also got a good first line job and had no real IT experience bar spending a year doing some data reporting job (so not really IT).

My trick was specialising in an area that not a lot of people did much in and it paid off. Nothing fancy or tricky really, just something I knew well and they needed :)

Especially down here, whilst there's a general lack of jobs like that down here conversly there's also not so many people going for them. Maybe.

Although I know 100 people went for the job my wife got, no idea if that's high or not.
 
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