Anyone else doing foundation degree at a college and feel conned?

Delvis · 26 Feb 2010 at 20:15

Lowe said:
A little word from the wise, no course will have you sat in front of a huge desk every single day. The sad fact is big mixers cost big money, so a facility will likely only have a few studios at best, then the majority of teaching is done in computer suite type environments. It's even more apparent when you consider the number of students needed to fund a Music Technology course of any description, it's a stupidly expensive course to teach.

Sorry to de-rail...but I used to work for PMC, quite amusing really to see a sig about them!

-Mike- · 26 Feb 2010 at 20:29

clv101 said:
Indeed, frankly I'm fairly shocked at the OP's attitude towards the maths content of his course. Basic numeracy (an I mean A-Level type maths here) is in my mind a prerequisite for any technical, network, engineering type qualification. I wouldn't employ a network engineer who didn't have that level of mathematical ability.

I'm also surprised at the OP's attitude that he doesn't need to learn anything he can't see is directly related to his idea of network engineering. What about getting a broad education? What about change of scope of role in the future? What if his idea of network engineering is incomplete?

Just seems strange to be so closed minded about such things.

Shocked by my attitude? I'm not displaying an attitude dude this is text on an Internet forum!

clv101 · 26 Feb 2010 at 21:16

-Mike- said:
Shocked by my attitude? I'm not displaying an attitude dude this is text on an Internet forum!

Attitudes can be expressed in text on Internet forums! :confused:

It seems to be your attitude that the maths in your course is pointless as is everything you can't map directly onto your understanding of a career in network engineering.

-Mike- · 27 Feb 2010 at 01:59

clv101 said:
Attitudes can be expressed in text on Internet forums!

It seems to be your attitude that the maths in your course is pointless as is everything you can't map directly onto your understanding of a career in network engineering.

Not at all. New course for me next year though, this ones not for me. It's not a waste of time for people who can't count but I understand binary etc just fine. My point is that pythag and logorithms are NOTHING to do with networking.

steve-h · 27 Feb 2010 at 02:14

My college wanted me to do their foundation degree... haha not a chance in hell.

cheaper than uni, also rubbish compared to uni.

college was bad enough... ill be damned if i actually pay to be there!

MajorMaccas · 27 Feb 2010 at 03:44

From my perspective, it sounds like you should not have got a course in academia, and instead got a professional qualification, like a Cisco CCNA/CCNP. I did a BTEC ND (A-level equivalent) in IT, and it included the first 2 (of 4) CCNA modules, and I have 2 Cisco certificates in addition to my BTEC certificate.

A professional qualification would be cheaper, and open more (specific) doors to you. Employers want Degrees, anything below that and "it's not a degree". :rolleyes:

Past that, employers really want professional qualifications. They certify that you can do XYZ in this field; degree's certify you're clever enough and have a grounding knowledge to be taught XYZ.

Anything below a degree in academia is only useful in work up against another candidate who doesn't have it. All they are are stepping stones to get into uni.

mejinks · 27 Feb 2010 at 03:48

Im not being funny, but I am genuinely interested in what pythag has to do with learning computer networking? They aren't doing you a favour by teaching you. You have paid for a course on a particular subject :confused:

Its like me going to uni, doing a course on photography and having bits of philosophy and home economics thrown in :confused:

It just seems like if you strip away all the rubbish, you are left with very little substance for your money, so they have to pad it out.

MajorMaccas · 27 Feb 2010 at 04:02

mejinks, you're thinking in a professional qualification sense. Degrees are there to broaden knowledge at the same time as deepen, to show your mental capacity to cope with new skills thrown at you in a new job.

Maths is critical to networking. Once you get over the mental hurdle of thinking in different number systems (binary, decimal, hexadecimal), then things become easier. But you have to let go of the decimal fundamentals you were taught in school. That's just one system of which there are many. Each digit has 10 values (0-9), in binary, its just 2 values (0-1), in hexadecimal, its 16 values (0-9-A-F), creating a huge number system. Ip addresses work in octets of binary. There's a huge tie in.

However, that was all on the Cisco modules, there was a separate maths module, which was completely pointless, learning basic maths of GCSE level. Ironically, the course required a C in GCSE maths for entry. :rolleyes:

mejinks · 27 Feb 2010 at 04:24

The_Sophisticate said:
mejinks, you're thinking in a professional qualification sense. Degrees are there to broaden knowledge at the same time as deepen, to show your mental capacity to cope with new skills thrown at you in a new job.

Maths is critical to networking. Once you get over the mental hurdle of thinking in different number systems (binary, decimal, hexadecimal), then things become easier. But you have to let go of the decimal fundamentals you were taught in school. That's just one system of which there are many. Each digit has 10 values (0-9), in binary, its just 2 values (0-1), in hexadecimal, its 16 values (0-9-A-F), creating a huge number system. Ip addresses work in octets of binary. There's a huge tie in.

However, that was all on the Cisco modules, there was a separate maths module, which was completely pointless, learning basic maths of GCSE level. Ironically, the course required a C in GCSE maths for entry.

Ah right. Cheers for clearing that up for me.

clv101 · 27 Feb 2010 at 08:54

-Mike- said:
Not at all. New course for me next year though, this ones not for me. It's not a waste of time for people who can't count but I understand binary etc just fine. My point is that pythag and logorithms are NOTHING to do with networking.

Okay, I don't agree at all. Logarithms have a lot to do with networking. Signal to noise ratios and attenuation are calculated in decibels, a logarithmic scale. I wouldn't want to employ a network engineer who didn't understand dBs!

PhillyDee · 27 Feb 2010 at 09:08

Trig itself is useful for quoting work. How about working out exacyly how much cable is needed? Simple stuff, but still need to know.

-Mike- · 27 Feb 2010 at 12:05

clv101 said:
Okay, I don't agree at all. Logarithms have a lot to do with networking. Signal to noise ratios and attenuation are calculated in decibels, a logarithmic scale. I wouldn't want to employ a network engineer who didn't understand dBs!

Hmm I understand dBs just fine, I don't need to understand how to plot a graph of the resistance of some rubbish to install and maintain a network.

GobzzzMp3 · 27 Feb 2010 at 13:31

The course i am doing at the moment leads me onto a Foundation Degree, i hope i dont get the same feeling that your having

p4radox · 27 Feb 2010 at 13:35

-Mike- said:
Hmm I understand dBs just fine, I don't need to understand how to plot a graph of the resistance of some rubbish to install and maintain a network.

I'm sorry, but that's rubbish. This kind of thing is crucial when studying characteristics of different cable technologies.

Perhaps you should go for something entirely non-academic if you're not prepared to learn a few fundamentals.

Technika · 27 Feb 2010 at 13:39

I think most people would agree with me when I say this

-Mike- needs to declare his variables.

matthab · 27 Feb 2010 at 13:43

Im doing a HNC in Networking and Hardware at Worcester Tech. One day a week im in college and rest of the time im at work. Im 20 years old and love the course. The lecturers know what there talking about and always willing to help. We spend half a day learning theory and the rest of the day in the lab doing hands on tasks. I also do cisco ccna monday nights which once again I cant fault how the college teaches it. I pay £950 a year and its 2 years this also includes the cisco course.

Considering the budget crysis and goverment pulling funding everywhere the college is trying there damn hardest. If a tutor cant make it were always told in advanced and either assigned another teacher or given course material to learn for assignments.

Lowe · 27 Feb 2010 at 16:10

Apologies for being off topic...

-Mike- said:
OT :

Lowe - Where have you been hiding.... thats if I remember you correctly you used to be a frequent motors forum poster?

I still lurk, but haven't had a car for 3 years now or so. I started riding a bike to work, and the car was sat on the drive doing nothing. I also ended up becoming a dad, so a crazy car kinda went off the agenda

Delvis said:
Sorry to de-rail...but I used to work for PMC, quite amusing really to see a sig about them!

Cool.

What did you do for them? I've got a pair of IB1S-A with the new PMC amps on loan at the moment.

Mr^B · 27 Feb 2010 at 17:20

-Mike- said:
Hmm I understand dBs just fine, I don't need to understand how to plot a graph of the resistance of some rubbish to install and maintain a network.

So you understand a logarithmic measurement scale (dB), and that it is used in networking (signal quality/strength), but don't see the relevance of it on a networking foundation course?

Interesting standpoint...

clv101 · 27 Feb 2010 at 17:48

Mr^B said:
So you understand a logarithmic measurement scale (dB), and that it is used in networking (signal quality/strength), but don't see the relevance of it on a networking foundation course?

Interesting standpoint...

Sounds like -Mike- just wants to pull CAT5 for his whole working life. His reluctance to learn fundamental stuff he can't currently see a direct application of if unlikely to get him far.

Josh107 · 27 Feb 2010 at 18:40

I'm in the same boat as the OP, doing an FDSC in Internet and business technologies and can't help but feel they're wasting my time... This isn't a new feeling with Chesterfield college though

before this I did a Btec in IT which was "equivilant to 3 a levels" then about 4 weeks before the end of the course they mentioned that most universities consider it a bit "micky mouse" (an actual quote from a lecturer).

On the IBT we arn't really challenged at all. We also do a unit in maths, but the teacher is old fashioned and teaching us in the wrong way, spending all her time drilling things into us. This would be great if we had an exam... but since it's all assignment based, we only need a good set of notes. She actually sent me out of the last lesson for standing up to her and looking at it she did me a massive favour.

Most of the other lessons arn't challenging either. With minimal effort (I spent most of my time there playing worms, poker, tekken etc on the machines since they are all connected, never done any homework either), and poor attendance I'm still on course for a distinction :confused:

. Would not reccomend.