How can Xbox360's still be so powerful?

[AshD93]

Just inputting my two Pence...

I think that regarding the money issue, a games console will beat a PC system. Consider the start up costs. A PS3 will set you back around £250 at the current moment.. or £450 when it was launched. Now I cannot include a television into the price as most homes have one.

On the other hand, a decent gaming PC gets in at around £500? Remember, operating system is atleast £50 minimum. Then include Keyboard, Mouse, Speakers, monitor and yada yada... it adds up.

A PS3 will then play every game released on it without fail. It also allows you to play Blu ray disks (I doubt you could get a Blu Ray drive in that price above for a PC)... outputs full HD, allows internet browsing as well as various other functions. Granted, its not a PC... but it does a good job at being a home entertainment system.

A PC on the other hand will run games just as well, probably better than a PS3. But as time goes on, the PC needs to be upgraded, parts need to be changing and so on. Personally, I think this one point alone is the downfall on the PC... And please remember that not everyone is technically skilled/confident to do upgrades themselves. A lot of people would go to a store to upgrade, not buy a card and do it themselves adding to the costs.

I think the one killer point about this Console vs PC thing is simple... the console is a lot more accessible, a lot more attractive and frankly, a lot easier for parents to buy their kids (thats where most of the players are from)...


If anyone disagrees/wants to correct me, please feel free. I'm here for a learning experience.

 

[Tiamat21]

Have you played rainbowsix vegas 2 on them both (Xbox 360 & PS3? i have and quite frankly discusted with the effort on PS3.
I seen the game on my mates xbox 360 and it was like a new game, loads more detail much better lighting and the Xbox live is a far better online experience than on PSN.

Needless to say i got rid of the PS3 and got a Xbox 360 and have never looked back.

Oh and the graphics hardware on the Xbox (ATI x1800-x1900) is better than the PS3 (Nvidia 7800).

not precisly, thats one game, do your reasearch and on the majority of the multi platform (just xbox and ps3) the reviews on graphics highly favor that of the ps3.

Shader wise, the xbox generaly wins yes.

But in all honesty, the ps3 has true HDMI not just upscaling like I said, that the xbox does. A dvd can only carry 4.3gb of space which is what the xbox is stuck with FOREVER, while the ps3 has future proof of up to 50gb a disc...

 

[haroon]

Just inputting my two Pence...

I think that regarding the money issue, a games console will beat a PC system. Consider the start up costs. A PS3 will set you back around £250 at the current moment.. or £450 when it was launched. Now I cannot include a television into the price as most homes have one.

On the other hand, a decent gaming PC gets in at around £500? Remember, operating system is atleast £50 minimum. Then include Keyboard, Mouse, Speakers, monitor and yada yada... it adds up.

A PS3 will then play every game released on it without fail. It also allows you to play Blu ray disks (I doubt you could get a Blu Ray drive in that price above for a PC)... outputs full HD, allows internet browsing as well as various other functions. Granted, its not a PC... but it does a good job at being a home entertainment system.

A PC on the other hand will run games just as well, probably better than a PS3. But as time goes on, the PC needs to be upgraded, parts need to be changing and so on. Personally, I think this one point alone is the downfall on the PC... And please remember that not everyone is technically skilled/confident to do upgrades themselves. A lot of people would go to a store to upgrade, not buy a card and do it themselves adding to the costs.

I think the one killer point about this Console vs PC thing is simple... the console is a lot more accessible, a lot more attractive and frankly, a lot easier for parents to buy their kids (thats where most of the players are from)...


If anyone disagrees/wants to correct me, please feel free. I'm here for a learning experience.

Right also new games released on the 360/ps3 are requiring quad core to get decent frame rates,so really you are at least going to upgrade your pc once even if you bought for example a top spec pc at same time as the 360 in 2005.A x1800/x1900 would not enable you to play the latest games available on the 360 and ps3,which was the highest end card at the time.

 

[Duran]

The reason the 360 and PS3 can display seemingly comparitively high quality graphics is because developers use a lot of technical tricks and optimisations to make certain effects run faster. Another reason is because their hardware is designed in a way that targets gaming, and yes that is a reason, because they incorporate features that often won't be in mainstream PC use for years (the 360's GPU is packed full of such goodies, like hardware tessellation (DX11) and direct memory write access (DX10), Cell could be argued to be such an example in itself, as could the 360's tri-core CPU - at least back in 2005 it could have).

Of course as stated, the consoles do have some severe fundamental issues, one of which is low memory bandwidth. Both consoles have around 25GB/s VRAM bandwidth on a 128-bit bus, which means it's very difficult to get a nice looking game running at above 720P, which is why most console games run at terrible resolutions.

rofl!

 

[Duran]

The reason the 360 and PS3 can display seemingly comparitively high quality graphics is because developers use a lot of technical tricks and optimisations to make certain effects run faster. Another reason is because their hardware is designed in a way that targets gaming, and yes that is a reason, because they incorporate features that often won't be in mainstream PC use for years (the 360's GPU is packed full of such goodies, like hardware tessellation (DX11) and direct memory write access (DX10), Cell could be argued to be such an example in itself, as could the 360's tri-core CPU - at least back in 2005 it could have).

Of course as stated, the consoles do have some severe fundamental issues, one of which is low memory bandwidth. Both consoles have around 25GB/s VRAM bandwidth on a 128-bit bus, which means it's very difficult to get a nice looking game running at above 720P, which is why most console games run at terrible resolutions.

rofl! i hope you are just trying to be funny.

 

[cupofchow]

not precisly, thats one game, do your reasearch and on the majority of the multi platform (just xbox and ps3) the reviews on graphics highly favor that of the ps3.

Shader wise, the xbox generaly wins yes.

But in all honesty, the ps3 has true HDMI not just upscaling like I said, that the xbox does. A dvd can only carry 4.3gb of space which is what the xbox is stuck with FOREVER, while the ps3 has future proof of up to 50gb a disc...

Well the reviews i read they all favour the 360...

GTA4 for one?

Xbox has native 1080P resolution also and the PS3 only uses 1080P for 2 titles i know of and that is GT5 and Wipeout HD other than that all the games are upscaled as it cant handle 1080P only for Blu-Ray.

As for DVD only holding 4.3Gb of data is tosh as you failed to mention dual layer which doubles it like the 25Gb Blu-Rays that get doubled hence your 50Gb quote.

There are not a lot of games that use anywhere near 8Gb so thats not a restriction at all.

Even if its a massive game the Xbox can install them on the HDD.

So i think you need to reasearch more before you start spouting your High Def knowledge.

Not TRUE HDMI.... LMFAO

CLICK HERE FOR REVEIW

 

[cmndr_andi]

If anyone disagrees/wants to correct me, please feel free. I'm here for a learning experience.

Many of your points are valid- but I do take issue with some of them.

It is true that most PC gamers have a high resolution, high pixel density screen to play games on, but this certainly isn't a requirement. It is just as easy to connect a modern PC up to a HD TV and speakers via HDMI and you are away. Personally, I don't play games this way (I prefer being at my desk) but it does work well.

As for the total cost, I must reiterate the point made earlier. Many homes have a desktop computer in it. If they have a CPU of the order of a Core 2 Duo then they have a basis for a gaming machine. By simply putting in a half decent graphics card (even a £55 4670 renders COD:MW2 perfectly well at 1080p with decent framerates) and a upgraded PSU (£50) you now have a gaming computer for less than the cost of a console.

The point about constant upgrades is interesting, but not entirely accurate. Personally, I have an i7 rig for uses outside of gaming. But if I had a old rig with a Core 2 Duo and a 8800GTX I would be able to play almost all modern games perfectly well - and will far better image quality/ framerates than a console. Almost always, increased hardware requirements are spurned on by the latest and greatest PC exclusive games (or the occasional really bad console ports), if you stick to Console port games or PC games using less cutting-edge technology then you will not need to upgrade hardware for a long time - possibly to the next console generation.

As for simplicity, there are 2 things that will allow you to PC game with little fuss and maximum enjoyment: Steam and Windows Update. Steam is a platform to buy a vast array of PC games on - they are geneally well priced, don't require disks and are automatically patched for your convenience - all in all an excellent service.Meanwhile Wndows update will keep you up to date with all your drivers - so no hassle.

Personally, I believe that parents buy their kids consoles because the Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft marketing is pervasive and they simply aren't informed of the relative simplicity of PC gaming.

 

[Domo]

I hope that PC gaming never dies out, and that some ignorant console gamers finally realise the true power of the PC.

I used to think like that but then I binned the PC and got a console. Its discreet, largely wireless and quiet. It plays Blu Ray movies on my large screen TV too. I'm not interested in going back to the myriad of wires, driver updates and benchmarking (I was well into building rigs then using 3DMark).

I miss BF2 and CS:S (and IL2!) but that's about it.

Sorry - derailed a bit there

 

[GunsAkimbo]

Personally, I believe that parents buy their kids consoles because the Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft marketing is pervasive and they simply aren't informed of the relative simplicity of PC gaming.

For the simplicity of the "PC gaming" you mention to be "relative", in that context, it would have to relative to that of console gaming... You can't for one second believe that PC gaming is simple relative to console gaming can you? honestly?

Exhibit one "relative simplicity"

Mrs Smith in any high street store:
Mrs S. : "I'd like an Xbox for my son John please",
17 yr old, possibly a casual drug user, definite virgin: "Of course madam, that will be £99.99 please"

Mrs smith in the purple shirted palace of Satan:
Mrs S. "I'd like a PC for my son John please"
Imp #211: "Muhahahahahaha, walk this way madam and I will terrorfy you with stories of paedophiles who can reach down your adsl line and touch poor Johnny in his private place and viruses that will drain your bank account... of course we can protect your son from rape and bankruptcy for as little as £4,000 and your immortal soul, Muhahahahaha "

I don't see the hand of Sony or MS in there anywhere

 

[Tiamat21]

As for DVD only holding 4.3Gb of data is tosh as you failed to mention dual layer which doubles it like the 25Gb Blu-Rays that get doubled hence your 50Gb quote.
CLICK HERE FOR REVEIW[/URL][/U]

Really, reviews I read are favorable of the ps3. *mainly read edge and kotaku*

But ya, totally forgot about Dual Layer DVDs, wasn't sure if the xbox supported that.

As for 1080p ps3 games
http://wikibin.org/articles/list-of-full-hd-1080p-ps3-games.html - ps3

http://www.makeyougohmm.com/xbox360-1080p-games/ - xbox360

Eitherway, am not much of a fan of mainstream games.
More of an Indie game fan boy. Pixel Junk <3

 

[cmndr_andi]

Sorry, I meant to say that PC gaming is simple relative to how Ash was characterising it. I agree that Consoles are by far more simple than PC gaming, not that this is always a good thing.

As for the hand of MS/Sony - that hand has informed them what a PS3/360 is an where to purchase one. Similarly, god awful purple shirted adverts have pointed a large proportion of the population to big box stores of the devil. If they knew that their money could get them something like this then they would reject these places like we all rightly should.

 

[buchtis]

Well the reviews i read they all favour the 360...

GTA4 for one?

Xbox has native 1080P resolution also and the PS3 only uses 1080P for 2 titles i know of and that is GT5 and Wipeout HD other than that all the games are upscaled as it cant handle 1080P only for Blu-Ray.

As for DVD only holding 4.3Gb of data is tosh as you failed to mention dual layer which doubles it like the 25Gb Blu-Rays that get doubled hence your 50Gb quote.

There are not a lot of games that use anywhere near 8Gb so thats not a restriction at all.

Even if its a massive game the Xbox can install them on the HDD.

So i think you need to reasearch more before you start spouting your High Def knowledge.

Not TRUE HDMI.... LMFAO

CLICK HERE FOR REVEIW

You're wrong on a couple of points:

1) 'Xbox has native 1080P resolution...'

No it doesn't, it up scales to 1080p which makes it look like ****.

2) DVD Issue

Yes a lot of games (currently) are using just a standard dual layer DVD, XBox wise, however have fun swapping 3+ disks when you're playing the new Final Fantasy or the upcoming MGS game. Don't bull**** about installing the data on the harddrive, wonder how many people still have their original 20GB HD, see how much you can store on that. There was an issue about this with the upcoming Lost Planet 2 game, whereby Capcom couldn't fit the whole game to a DVD DL so instead they're planning to release it as premium DLC, just lovley.

Unfortunately game developers are lazy as **** these days, Valve being a prime example. Why bother developing a existing IP on a PS3 when you can just develop it on the PC, then easily port it on the XBox which is practically a PC.

The PC however will still be the most powerful thing out game wise, just a shame that you have to spend a fortune to make games look good.

 

[chipps101]

i have a fairly high spec pc, a ps3 and an xbox 360, i have to say that i love them all but they do all have good and bad points,

the pc as said has to be upgraded every year or so if i want to play at the highest settings and games have to be installed to the hard drive and they are not any good for multiplayer games like mario kart or smash brothers, but i have now given up on fps's on control pads and rts's will always be better on a keyboard and mouse also.

the xbox 360 has a great selection of games but can suffer from dodgy textures and the dvd drive is loud and annoying as hell.

the ps3 is now becoming so much more with stuff like vidzone and iplayer and of course the bluray player but it does get sorely shafted with some games, for example bayonetta is a stuttering mess on the ps3, thank god i played the demo on both before i got the xbox 360 version.

oh and i still have my gamecube for mariokart, super smash brothers and super monkeyball

 

[buchtis]

i have a fairly high spec pc, a ps3 and an xbox ...for example bayonetta is a stuttering mess on the ps3, thank god i played the demo on both before i got the xbox 360 version.

Unfortunately another lazy port by the developers, shame too because I played the demo and though it was a pretty fun game and then I heard about all the issues.

I couldn't imagine playing some games on the consoles though, first one that comes to mind is the S.T.A.L.K.E.R series. Too many actions for a console controller, i've heard that they might be working on a console version on S.T.A.L.K.E.R 2, if so R.I.P lol.

 

[hyperst]

Personally, I believe that parents buy their kids consoles because the Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft marketing is pervasive and they simply aren't informed of the relative simplicity of PC gaming.

Not me, i buy my lad a 360 because i spend far too much time and money on my pc for the few games that are anygood, far cheaper and lots of time saved is a win for consoles, and allways will be, where parents are concerned.

 

[GunsAkimbo]

Unfortunately game developers are lazy as **** these days, Valve being a prime example. Why bother developing a existing IP on a PS3 when you can just develop it on the PC, then easily port it on the XBox which is practically a PC..

WHAT!? Games developers are certainly NOT lazy, its one of the few development environments that still "crunches" and those guys get paid **** all for the level of maths, physics and coding know how they posses.

If you want to blame any one blame Sony for their esoteric architecture, lateness of their Phyre engine, and not learning lessons from the PS2.

Where as the Xbox needs a Dev kit, Visual Studio and standard C++ and 3d graphics know how.

Get on iTunes and download the MIT parallel programming lectures where they use the PS3 as a dev environment ... now, if you've done any coding: compare the complexity and jumping through hoops that stuff entails to writing a DirectX application in C++.

 

[chipps101]

If you want to blame any one blame Sony for their esoteric architecture, lateness of their Phyre engine, and not learning lessons from the PS2.

you would have thought they would have learned from sega's mistakes with the saturn and dreamcast also when it comes to hard to program machines

 

[Strife212]

I've got a GTX 280 SLI PC but I never use it anymore, I prefer to sit back on the sofa and play games on the 50" TV instead.

With the current gen of consoles incorporating decent online play they are catching up fast.

PC games also generally are awful these days, they're just crap console ports most of the time. The golden days of PC gaming are over in my opinion

 

[Aedus]

To be honest if there was a console which used a mouse and keyboard instead of a controller, I probably wouldn't own a PC, I like the thought of knowing I can buy a game, run it perfectly, have no upgrade costs, be able to sell games after I'm through with them, etc etc.

The online play defo made the consoles catch up to PC gaming in enjoyability.

 

[chipps101]

PC games also generally are awful these days, they're just crap console ports most of the time. The golden days of PC gaming are over in my opinion

i take it you don't play rts's then ?