Wii sensor bar - Grand Slam Tennis

I understand that the actual "sensing" is on the wiimote side and the bar gives the two points to sense. Nonetheless, it's at the least a basis for detecting the wiimote's position left or right, which in the tennis game could tell the Wii whether the player is actually moving the mote left and right for back- and fore- hands.

Not sure I understand why it is not used for that, but I think it's clear they could have engineered it that way.
 
Kreeeee said:
Argh, if I wasn't on my iPod I'd post a big response about it. I made a light gun game for the wii using 2 sensor bars to allow the player to duck behind and lean around objects as a big project in my final year.

It really is that simple, it isn't even used to measure the vertical angle of the wiimote when pointing at the screen. I even used 2 candles instead of the sensor bar at one point.
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I can see why it would not give a vertical angle, because there are just led's left and right, so can only "triangulate" or something like that in reference to left and right.
 
Sorry for the triple post, but what I understand from what you're saying is that the Wiimote simply waits until it can "see both led's" and then decides "I'm pointing at the screen now".

It does nothing else
 
The way the Wii is designed means that what you're suggesting just isn't possible. It wouldn't need a slight redesign to allow for it, the whole system would have to be completely changed.

[EDIT] Just read your third post, yes that's all the sensor bar is there for.

The Wii remotes are actually small infra-red cameras, the sensor bar is actually a series of small LED lights that emit infra red. All the sensor bar is is a point of reference for the camera in the Wii remote so it can be used as a pointer. ALL of the motion detection is done by accelerometers inside the Wii remote.

The concept you're describing is closer to that of the aforementioned Sony move controller which is due to be released at the end of the year. In which a camera (on top of the television) tracks the movement of a glowing ball the user holds in their hand, this allows it to track movement speed, distance, orientation, depth, everything. In my eyes this is the better way of doing it in comparison to the Wii as it will allow for better tracking of a users movements.
 
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Streeteh said:
........
[EDIT] Just read your third post, yes that's all the sensor bar is there for.

The Wii remotes are actually small infra-red cameras, the sensor bar is actually a series of small LED lights that emit infra red. All the sensor bar is is a point of reference for the camera in the Wii remote so it can be used as a pointer. ALL of the motion detection is done by accelerometers inside the Wii remote.

The concept you're describing is closer to that of the aforementioned Sony move controller which is due to be released at the end of the year.
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Ok. So also that youtube video further up must be a hoax.
 
GreatWaves said:
Ok. So also that youtube video further up must be a hoax.
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No it isn't but it's reversed the concept. The user is actually holding the sensor bar and the Wii remote is sat underneath the television. This allows for a relatively accurate reproduction of the movement of the user in terms of sideways movement and depth.

Jumping back to the Sony move stuff, what the guy has done in that video, by reversing the placement of the remote and the sensor, is closer to what the move controller will do.

[EDIT] Look at it this way, the sensor bar as it's used normally is basically telling the Wii remote where the television is, so it can be used as a pointer. When you reverse the concept, the sensor bar is telling the Wii remote where the user is and so it is able to reproduce his movements.
 
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GreatWaves said:
Sorry for the triple post, but what I understand from what you're saying is that the Wiimote simply waits until it can "see both led's" and then decides "I'm pointing at the screen now".

It does nothing else
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no, it determines horizontal angle to the screen and distance from screen. Hence why reversing it like in the video above and my uni project allows the user to move around and the display changes as if you were looking through a window.

It does a lot more, but that's all it uses the sensor bar (stupidly named btw) for.
 
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Kreeeee said:
no, it determines horizontal angle to the screen and distance from screen.
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Which so far (in my experience at least) has only been used to change the orientation and size of the pointer :p

[EDIT] Or at least, that's the only use that it seems to have when interpreting from the lights on the sensor bar.
 
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Kreeeee said:
no, it determines horizontal angle to the screen and distance from screen.

It does a lot more, but that's all it uses the sensor bar (stupidly named btw) for.
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Well I understand why they named it "sensor bar"... would confuse people to call it the "reference points bar".

But if it determines horizontal angle and distance also making the video's reverse application possible (and quite smoothly and accurately), then I still do not see why that cannot be applied in games for a useful level of left and right sensing (NOT applied "in reverse" as in the vid).

EDIT: If the accelerometer says "moving somewhere" AND the bar says "moved away from middle to left" THEN "player is setting up for a backhand".
 
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GreatWaves said:
Well I understand why they named it "sensor bar"... would confuse people to call it the "reference points bar".

But if it determines horizontal angle and distance also making the video's reverse application possible (and quite smoothly and accurately), then I still do not see why that cannot be applied in games for a useful level of left and right sensing (NOT applied "in reverse" as in the vid).

EDIT: If the accelerometer says "moving somewhere" AND the bar says "moved away from middle to left" THEN "player is setting up for a backhand".
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I'll post a proper reply when I get home, there's a fair bit of misinformation and confusion in this thread
 
Kreeeee said:
I'll post a proper reply when I get home, there's a fair bit of misinformation and confusion in this thread
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I haven't counted but there are several different versions of how both games sense and how the menu's sense, etc.

EDIT: It's a little ironic that Grand Slam Tennis, if played efficiently, looks like someone sitting there "cracking a whip" while the other player, either not aware of this or just wanting exercise, is sweating buckets hitting actual backhands and forehands :D
 
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Regarding game play in GST, I need to revise my assessment slightly...

The "sensor bar" IS USED during game play, but ONLY for assessing whether the player is slicing, hitting flat or topspin.
edit: Sorry. The above line is wrong. I misinterpreted something about what was happening. In light of this I have revised much of what I wrote below.

Actually swinging at the ball is how you get slices, topspin etc (based entirely on accelerometer). If you are going to swing at the ball then for the sake of timing, you are better off actually hitting backhands and forehands physically. But your timing may not be very fast. Ball placement will be confusing on the backhand side if you only swing on one side, so you need to actually physically play for this to work.

So basically it can make sense to actually stand there and "swing at balls" if it feels more natural for you in terms of timing and slicing, etc. It may cost you on timing and occasionally cause miss hits when the accelerometer misreads a movement as a swing.

I find motion+ useful only if you want to lie on the couch without actually "swinging at the ball" to get slices, etc. Seems like this is exactly what they meant it for in GST... "lazy man's moving around".

If you want excellent timing, have a seat and "crack the whip" when hitting balls. That's probably what most "excellent fast players" do. Use the Motion+ for slices, etc.

I don't know... the likes of Sony Move however looks better to me. It looks like that uses the movie technique for filming natural motion for digital animating. Logical choice I think. And most importantly, it looks like something that will NOT allow techniques like "cracking the whip" and thus provide a level playing field for all players who want to play tennis physically. Let's see.
 
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Kreeeee said:
Of course Sony move is better, they've had 3.5 years to analyse, copy and add to the tech.
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Yeah the digital animation filming technique is a great way to capture motion... animated movie producers have been doing that for many years now I think, or is it more recent than I remember?

It must be also that Nintendo were probably skeptical whether actually moving around would be that popular. Had they predicted the level of the wii craze and people liking the physicality as much as they do, I'd guess they would have gone with something like what Sony is doing from the start.
 
No offence because you seem to really like GSM but when I played it was pretty poop. If you're after a great motion experience on Wii Sports Resort is the only thing I've seen that's accurate, bar the Frisbee game in Tiger Woods Golf.
 
JaFFa said:
No offence because you seem to really like GSM but when I played it was pretty poop. If you're after a great motion experience on Wii Sports Resort is the only thing I've seen that's accurate, bar the Frisbee game in Tiger Woods Golf.
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Well I like Tennis (and the concept of online ranked playing). I recall Sports Resort has table tennis.

My main gripes are that most people in the ranked online matches appear to resort to the "cracking the whip" tactic (most sensible tactic if you want to win matches) AND if I play physically, setting up for a backhand all too often results in the wiimote detecting a "swing at the ball" when I'm just "pulling back the racket", so it then hits too early. If I could just get that ironed out, I wouldn't even mind so much playing against all the wrist flicker players.

Ah well. Sony Move will not be out until 3rd quarter so may as well keep working on it.

Oh and the Tiger Golf does look good too. I think that should work better overall with the Wii hardware. Never tried it.
 
Quick update and question on the Motion+...

Now that I fully realize that there is no input whatsoever from the "sensor bar" link even for some basic left-right sensing, etc, I've been doing OK with playing tennis. It was sort of necessary to be aware of that to really get the hang of it. It's been alright and have been enjoying it. Have even had some tight online matches. I have NOT been using Motion+ though.

I've tried Motion+ again briefly. I always first stabilize it by setting it face down for a few seconds. It works GREAT for about one minute, then it seems to flip it's perception of left and right and backhands become forehands and so on.

From what I understand people do use Motion+ for physical play, so what's the trick to it not getting left/right flipped? I can't imagine what it would be, but may as well inquire at least. It's a shame because for that first minute or less, IT WORKS GREAT. I'm really able to control and direct the shots very well.

In any case, Tennis on Wii (EA's Grand Slam Tennis) is quite good after all even despite the sensing limitations :)
 
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