Poll: Do you support the BA Cabin Crew 12 day strike at Christmas?

[zetec452]

I pity those that let fear overide their right to stand up for themselves.

And what do you do when standing up for yourself results in mass redundancies and or the closure of a company? There is a balance in which I feel is often tipped negatively by a union, certainly in BA's case and the car companies.

I think sometimes unions and employees are very short sighted. Not in your case mind as HP are making a stack of cash.

 

[scorza]

I see no logic in your theory scorza.

I work in the Systems Integration industry, where we have very low levels of union representation. This has been the industry that has been particularly affected by the off-shoring of jobs to low wage economies, and indeed bringing in low-paid non-EU workers to the UK despite it being technically illegal. There's no-one to fight our case except individually, which as I'm sure you can imagine puts us at a massive disadvantage, so we meekly put up with it and try our best to find roles that haven't gone abroad yet.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

HP strike is OFF!

Significant progress was made in negotiations yesterday at ACAS in London between PCS and HP.

Members meetings have agreed to the suspension of the 29th + 30th March strike dates and work to rule action. This is to enable further talks to talk place on Tuesday 30th March.

Strike days planned for 6th + 7th April are still on with the option to resume WTR with 7 days notice.

I think I'm going to have a very long day on Tuesday - time to stock up on the Red Bull!

 

[Greenlizard0]

This is one thing I've read almost nothing about in the news. Can anybody give me the points briefly from both sides please?

Reading through the thread currently though just started.

 

[Dolph]

I work in the Systems Integration industry, where we have very low levels of union representation. This has been the industry that has been particularly affected by the off-shoring of jobs to low wage economies, and indeed bringing in low-paid non-EU workers to the UK despite it being technically illegal. There's no-one to fight our case except individually, which as I'm sure you can imagine puts us at a massive disadvantage, so we meekly put up with it and try our best to find roles that haven't gone abroad yet.

The problem is not a lack of union representation, but being in an industry where location is largely irrelevant to the nature of the service provided.

Have you not considered forming your own union/employee forum? Suggested it to your employers?

Take a look at the top 25 companies to work according to the Sunday Times, and look how many are unionised... there is no evidence at all that trade union recognition make for better workplaces and happier staff.

 

[Von Smallhausen]

I would suggest to British Airways workers who have been on strike this week, the next time you see a soldier who's returned from Afganistan in a box or minus limbs make sure you tell him or her about your awful working conditions, poor uniform and low pay. Let me know how you get on.

 

[Destination]

They're more likely to do that if the workers don't stand up for themselves imo.

How do you figure that?
You strike, company goes bust, off they trot. (worse case senario)
(best case) you strike, you win terms you wanted, company goes bust due to overheads, adminstrators sell company to folks who will reemploy you for nothing, or shift it elsewher.

Welcome to the recover kids, the hard times haven't remotely started to hit us yet.

 

[scorza]

The problem is not a lack of union representation, but being in an industry where location is largely irrelevant to the nature of the service provided.

How many UK jobs are truly location dependant? Not many I suggest. Nothing that says BA have to hub in Britain is there? nothing to stop them getting cheap pilots from third world countries instead of expensive former RAF officers who like to live in the South of England. If Willie Walsh succeeds in crushing the cabin crew union then I suggest that the pilot's union will be next.

Have you not considered forming your own union/employee forum? Suggested it to your employers?

They used to brick people up in walls for doing that. These days it's just a good way to make sure you don't get a pay rise, ever again.

 

[Dolph]

How many UK jobs are truly location dependant? Not many I suggest. Nothing that says BA have to hub in Britain is there? nothing to stop them getting cheap pilots from third world countries instead of expensive former RAF officers who like to live in the South of England. If Willie Walsh succeeds in crushing the cabin crew union then I suggest that the pilot's union will be next.

There are some jobs where performance is related to location, especially where customer facing roles are concerned. Perhaps if the British public were more ethical in their buying choices it would improve things further?

As for crushing the cabin crew, the proposals so far have been more than reasonable, the existing staff's benefits etc being protected while planning for a more competitive future... What alternative approach would you suggest BA take for long term cost competitiveness?

They used to brick people up in walls for doing that. These days it's just a good way to make sure you don't get a pay rise, ever again.

Get a better employer then?

 

[scorza]

There are some jobs where performance is related to location, especially where customer facing roles are concerned. Perhaps if the British public were more ethical in their buying choices it would improve things further?

As for crushing the cabin crew, the proposals so far have been more than reasonable, the existing staff's benefits etc being protected while planning for a more competitive future... What alternative approach would you suggest BA take for long term cost competitiveness?

How about negotiation and not imposition. I read in the Guardian that BA hired a management consultant who told them how they should break up the union.

Get a better employer then?

I'm always looking but in my experience there isn't much difference. It made me laugh looking at the Sunday Times top 25 big companies to work for.

 

[Dolph]

How about negotiation and not imposition. I read in the Guardian that BA hired a management consultant who told them how they should break up the union.

How do you negotiate with the unwilling to change?

Indeed, BA was barely asking existing employees to change, just to standardise the practices already in place at every airport bar heathrow...

I'm always looking but in my experience there isn't much difference. It made me laugh looking at the Sunday Times top 25 big companies to work for.

I work for one, and I strongly disagree with you, both about the laughter and the attitude towards internal employee representation

 

[dannyjo22]

I would suggest to British Airways workers who have been on strike this week, the next time you see a soldier who's returned from Afganistan in a box or minus limbs make sure you tell him or her about your awful working conditions, poor uniform and low pay. Let me know how you get on.

That is completely irrelevant and has been ripped from some facebook group because I've seen loads of tarts on facebook with it set as their 'phrase'.

My employer has just offered me a 50% paycut and from now on I must agree to be sexually abused If I want any holidays but hey atleast I'm not some poor soldier returning in a box from Afganistan.

So from now on no one must fight for any working conditions rights because of the dead soldiers. No one must ask for a payrise this year because of dead soldiers, how dare you when there are people dieing.

Getting made redundant, who cares atleast your not a dead soldier.

 

[Dolph]

That is completely irrelevant and has been ripped from some facebook group because I've seen loads of tarts on facebook with it set as their 'phrase'.

My employer has just offered me a 50% paycut and from now on I must agree to be sexually abused If I want any holidays but hey atleast I'm not some poor soldier returning in a box from Afganistan.

So from now on no one must fight for any working conditions rights because of the dead soldiers. No one must ask for a payrise this year because of dead soldiers, how dare you when there are people dieing.

Getting made redundant, who cares atleast your not a dead soldier.

You're right, we should stick to comparing BA cabin crew's terms and conditions with those elsewhere in the industry (or even within BA) when determining if their behaviour is unreasonable and should be considered unacceptable.

 

[Greenlizard0]

I would suggest to British Airways workers who have been on strike this week, the next time you see a soldier who's returned from Afganistan in a box or minus limbs make sure you tell him or her about your awful working conditions, poor uniform and low pay. Let me know how you get on.

No don't copy/paste Facebook statuses.

 

[dannyjo22]

You're right, we should stick to comparing BA cabin crew's terms and conditions with those elsewhere in the industry (or even within BA) when determining if their behaviour is unreasonable and should be considered unacceptable.

Correct. Next up will be Easyjet, they have just offered their pilots a 0.008% payrise after giving the CEO a loyalty bonus of 1.2 million. A guy whose shown no loyalty has been short term and is leaving to go elsewhere.

Will be fun to see how that plays out now.

 

["andy"]

id sack the lot of them and handpick some new and improved staff from the million unemployed.

 

[scorza]

id sack the lot of them and handpick some new and improved staff from the million unemployed.

I agree, there must be quite a few unemployed executives at the moment who could do a better job than Walsh&Co.

 

[zetec452]

I agree, there must be quite a few unemployed executives at the moment who could do a better job than Walsh&Co.

There are probably more cabin crew.

 

[Dolph]

Correct. Next up will be Easyjet, they have just offered their pilots a 0.008% payrise after giving the CEO a loyalty bonus of 1.2 million. A guy whose shown no loyalty has been short term and is leaving to go elsewhere.

Will be fun to see how that plays out now.

Given the pay gap between BA staff at heathrow and their competition, a pay freeze would be more than reasonable, a pay cut could be entirely justified in fact...

 

[Dolph]

I agree, there must be quite a few unemployed executives at the moment who could do a better job than Walsh&Co.

We can look at who has actually attended work as contracted in the last few months? That's often a good indicator of staff quality