A pay cut for who the BA lot or was you refering to the EasyJet ones offered the 0.008?
Poll: Do you support the BA Cabin Crew 12 day strike at Christmas?
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A pay cut for who the BA lot or was you refering to the EasyJet ones offered the 0.008?
For the BA staff. Any group earning 50-100% more than equivalent staff and working for a company struggling to be profitable should be able to see this as reasonable.
They really are not earning that much more as I keep saying, but I agree that they are paid more. Virgin pay artificially low wages because they don't want cabin crew to hang around and not many do with that wage and operating out of London.
You say it, but your anecdotes don't convince against the publicly available data.
As for Virgin's low wage and high staff turnover, perhaps it's benefiting them?
http://www.brandrepublic.com/News/9...er-satisfaction-poll-BA-scores-below-average/
That publically available data is CAA horse ****. I say again have you had your wages auditted by the CAA, I have I know how far out they are.
My company recently paid to do a survey of engineers wages in the industry to see how we were paid in comparison to other Airlines to see how much of an uplift we needed to bring us in line.
The figures that came back were laughable. it wasn't in the other Airlines interest to get wages bumped up as competitiors.
We were told that Airline X paid (example) £40,000 which I knew was **** because I'd just left airline X on £48,000. Even when I produced wage slips to show I was on those wages at Airline X it wasn't in anyones interests to accept those figures.
If for example they asked Easyjet how much on average they were paying cabin crew easy would add everyone, including trainees to help bring the average down. It wouldn't be in their interests to pass on accurate figures and they wouldn't. The same as when BA were asked for engineers wages they supplied figures that included apprentices and semi skilled labour which brought the average down to laughable levels.
It wasn't in their interests to have the figures increased with regards competition and who could blame them. As I say I've had my wages auditted and know what a complete and utter joke they are.
My company recently paid to do a survey of engineers wages in the industry to see how we were paid in comparison to other Airlines to see how much of an uplift we needed to bring us in line.
The figures that came back were laughable. it wasn't in the other Airlines interest to get wages bumped up as competitiors.
We were told that Airline X paid (example) £40,000 which I knew was **** because I'd just left airline X on £48,000. Even when I produced wage slips to show I was on those wages at Airline X it wasn't in anyones interests to accept those figures.
If for example they asked Easyjet how much on average they were paying cabin crew easy would add everyone, including trainees to help bring the average down. It wouldn't be in their interests to pass on accurate figures and they wouldn't. The same as when BA were asked for engineers wages they supplied figures that included apprentices and semi skilled labour which brought the average down to laughable levels.
It wasn't in their interests to have the figures increased with regards competition and who could blame them. As I say I've had my wages auditted and know what a complete and utter joke they are.
Once again, your anecdotes (and misunderstanding of the applicability of averages and how they differ from individual wages) is far from convincing.
Once again I have actual knowledge of how it works and how its applied to the industry but yet somehow you have become a greater expert on It that me.
Your thinking of it purely without looking deeper
BA pay an avergae wage of £30,000 for cabin crew
Easyjet £20,000
Examples
This would not take into account the sheer volume of trainees Easyjet goes through in comparison to BA. The CAA audit just requested cabin crew, it did not ask for fully trained. Even if it did no airline was under any obligation to tell the truth and again I ask you why the **** would they?
Why would it be In BA/Easyjet?Ryainair etcs interests to apply figures to an audit that showed they paid lower than the industry required?
For the last time, have you had your wages auditted by the CAA and seen how far out the figures are?
BA weren't asking their employees anything, they were telling them what the changes were going to be. I think BASSA have shown that they recognise the need to change, indeed offering a pay cut and a two year pay freeze.
I'm fully aware of all that, it's entirely irrelevant when the issue is the size of the wage bill and the percentage of ticket price that goes on paying cabin crew
As I don't work in this industry, this would appear to be an appeal to ignorance...
Let's look at it another way. Is BA's employment cost per head higher than their competitors for cabin crew? Are they getting commercial benefit from this being the case?
I've already provided evidence that they aren't getting commercial benefit (from customer satisfaction). So is BA's per head wage bill higher?
The problem here is Dolph, Willie Walsh et al want a race to the bottom for anyone who isn't a manager, which means they think BA should lay off many experienced staff and replace them with "trainees" like Easyjet do. Amirite?
BA need to do something, because their current model isn't working.
I fully support paying more for better staff, the problem is that BA are paying a lot more for staff that appear, at best, to be average, and any attempt to change this is met with massive resistance and refusal.
From that old survey then no they are not getting customer satisfaction, but that doesn't mean the dissatisfaction was aimed at cabin crew. It could be the check in, state of the aircraft, catering or 100 other things.
Or are you presuming customer satisfaction means Cabin crew.
Lets say it is Cabin Crew to validate your point of view. Perhaps then they need to look at better training of the staff they have. Perhaps instead they could better train the cabin crew with money they save from cutting the jobs of the office staff they have. BA has more hangers on per aircraft than any other airline in the country. If they need to save money why not shed some of those as well?
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That survey was summer 2009, it's hardly old.
I fully agree, but training can only work with staff willing to change. Entrenched staff resistant to change do not respond to training, especially if it changes the way they do their job.
With regards to other areas cutting back, I agree entirely, but the point is that they already are...
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I can't understand anyone being against BA on this. I mean 30k for for a flying waitress, please. Lets get back to common sense.
The BASSA proposals don't provide for long term cost savings though, there was nothing to stop them demanding a 10% rise (for example) three years from now.
In the long term BA need to bring their cabin crew costs down, they have tried to do this without affecting the pay conditions etc of the existing staff too much, but have just asked them to bring their working practices in line with BA flights from other airports, and have changed the terms and conditions for new starters to something more sustainable long term.
For me, that seems to be the best solution all around. Perhaps I'm missing something, but in most industrial disputes, that would be far more like the final settlement than the initial idea.
It was for the first quarter only of 2009 not even the busy period of the year. I wouldn't read too much into a 3 month customer survey. Although to be fair to them even the BA score they say is substantially better than US airlines. It's lower than Virgins but not tragic or bad.
Thinking about it If I was to score an Airline for customer satisfaction I've always preferred the overall experience I have had with Virgin over BA but that would have nothing to do with cabin crew. They are much the same on any airline I've been with the exception of the odd rude one with ***** Air.
Infact I barely take any notice of them at all other than to see how fit they are and wonder if they are as utter filth as most I've come in contact with
Thinking about it If I was to score an Airline for customer satisfaction I've always preferred the overall experience I have had with Virgin over BA but that would have nothing to do with cabin crew. They are much the same on any airline I've been with the exception of the odd rude one with ***** Air.
Infact I barely take any notice of them at all other than to see how fit they are and wonder if they are as utter filth as most I've come in contact with
Agreed, they pay the pilots 107k on average too, for a ****ing systems monitor.
Maybe a 10% pay rise would be justified three years from now. Maybe a 10% pay rise would be justified in 2 but that's life. The point is that BASSA have shown that they're aware that their interests are intertwined with BA's, but that doesn't mean that they have to lie down and let BA walk all over them.
Maybe the best solution would be to turn BA into a worker-owned co-operative like John Lewis. I bet there wouldn't be any damaging strikes then.
Maybe they have, maybe they haven't... They are still showing a strong reluctance to any form of change.
If it had been done when BA was privatised, yes, now it would be too expensive for the employees to buy out the investors.
Alternatively it might have been better if BA had not been created by a process of forced nationalisation in the first place
well they just had someone on the news saying she got paid 11k and didn't get paid for time off.
All I know is that while on strike they don't get anything so something must be motivating them.
But striking is not the answer and will not work.
I love the way you can assess the business structure of a huge corporation and suggest efficiency savings on the evidence of a few media stories.