City & Guilds

Smithy · 29 Mar 2010 at 14:49

How highly regarded are these qualifications? The college I'm looking at only offers it up to level 2 at the moment, but I'd be interested in perusing it up to level 3 if I could find a college near me which offers the course.

I did what most people have done; got to my early 20s, realised that the path I was on wasn't where I wanted to be heading and am now too old to afford/get in to full-time education. So the course I'm looking at is a part-time 2 evening a week course in furniture production. This will allow me to work a full week (getting work where I can, vaguely relative to the course I'll be studying) and afford to do the course, while still paying rent and other bills. I'll also look into what grants I can get, but not holding out.

It's not an ideal situation but I think it's the best I can do. So I'm just after some experienced opinions on how much value a City & Guilds qualification actually holds, and whether it's going to prepare me sufficiently for becoming a skilled worker in its field. Also, how do these hold up against NVQ level 2 qualifications?

Steve2000 · 29 Mar 2010 at 15:02

Smithy said:
How highly regarded are these qualifications?

Two words: Not very.

Smithy · 29 Mar 2010 at 15:05

Well that's a start.

Are you an employer, or someone who has a City & Guilds qualification?

Kutter · 29 Mar 2010 at 15:11

Is it an nvq course or are they still doing the c&g in furniture ? My phone is playing up at the mo so ill give you some idea when i get home. Ive done advanced craft in c&g furniture and nvq in carpentry & joinery.

Mp4 · 29 Mar 2010 at 15:11

This is what i have and it was pritty much a waste of time BUT i had a chance to go to Uni which i wish i did now.

Ofc all outdated

City & Guilds:

Level III Advanced Diploma for I.T. Practitioners (ICT Systems Support) (Oct 2004)
Level II Diploma for I.T. Practitioners (ICT Systems Support) (July 2003)
Level II Diploma for I.T. Users (July 2003)

GNVQ:Information & Communication Technology

Steve2000 · 29 Mar 2010 at 15:16

Smithy said:
Well that's a start.

Are you an employer, or someone who has a City & Guilds qualification?

My son went to college to do some IT qualifications, two City and Guilds Diplomas. I could tell straight away that the courses were mickey mouse, poorly put together and poorly administered. But he wanted to do it so in the end I just let him.

2 years down the line, job application time. About 200 applications sent out, only one of them expressed any interest, and it was only the CISCO Essentials certificate they were bothered about, as they probably know just what these C&G certs are worth.

Now he's an electrician believe it or not.

VFR_KID · 29 Mar 2010 at 15:16

I have city & Guilds in warehousing and storage distributions operations level 2 and can say it was an utter load of **** Doing the job other people walking off the street could do and just felt like a waste of my time

Smithy · 29 Mar 2010 at 15:17

Mp4 said:
This is what i have and it was pritty much a waste of time BUT i had a chance to go to Uni which i wish i did now.

Ofc all outdated

City & Guilds:

Level III Advanced Diploma for I.T. Practitioners (ICT Systems Support) (Oct 2004)
Level II Diploma for I.T. Practitioners (ICT Systems Support) (July 2003)
Level II Diploma for I.T. Users (July 2003)

GNVQ:Information & Communication Technology

Interesting that you deem it a waste of time. But I'd guess that there are differences in how the different C&G courses are valued by an employer. IT for example probably isn't going to get much appraisal considering there is an abundance of IT professionals/graduates with qualifications which far surpass that of a C&G course.

Smithy · 29 Mar 2010 at 15:21

Steve2000 said:
My son went to college to do some IT qualifications, two City and Guilds Diplomas. I could tell straight away that the courses were mickey mouse, poorly put together and poorly administered. But he wanted to do it so in the end I just let him.

2 years down the line, job application time. About 200 applications sent out, only one of them expressed any interest, and it was only the CISCO Essentials certificate they were bothered about, as they probably know just what these C&G certs are worth.

Now he's an electrician believe it or not.

It's a shame for your son. I wonder if his bad experience is to with the competitive nature of the IT market rather than the perceived value of his C&G course?

Does anyone have any experience with a C&G course in construction/woodworking etc?

VFR_KID · 29 Mar 2010 at 15:23

Smithy said:
It's a shame for your son. I wonder if his bad experience is to with the competitive nature of the IT market rather than the perceived value of his C&G course?

Does anyone have any experience with a C&G course in construction/woodworking etc?

only experience mines had in that field was a builders merchants LOL.

Strangely now after about 3 years of being out the game I can still tell folk a scarily amount of stuff about products especially wood

This is me fora fact LOL

Mark A · 29 Mar 2010 at 15:24

Most furniture production these days is just basically factory work, i doubt you would need any qualifications.

I did a C&G in cabinet making and upholstery and it was a complete waste of 2 years tbh.

Mp4 · 29 Mar 2010 at 15:25

Smithy said:
Interesting that you deem it a waste of time. But I'd guess that there are differences in how the different C&G courses are valued by an employer. IT for example probably isn't going to get much appraisal considering there is an abundance of IT professionals/graduates with qualifications which far surpass that of a C&G course.

^ yup that exactly

Well for me it was a waste of time even when i finished the C&G. Already A+ was introduced which wasn't done via college (3rd party etc) so you had to find your way after spending 2 years on the course. And then even not looking into A+ trying to get a job with C&G in IT is a no go.

CCNA via the college is £2k which is over 2 years

imo get into an employer asap with the job you like and get them to pay/mentor you

Smithy · 29 Mar 2010 at 15:32

Mp4 said:
^ yup that exactly

Well for me it was a waste of time even when i finished the C&G. Already A+ was introduced which wasn't done via college (3rd party etc) so you had to find your way after spending 2 years on the course. And then even not looking into A+ trying to get a job with C&G in IT is a no go.

CCNA via the college is £2k which is over 2 years

imo get into an employer asap with the job you like and get them to pay/mentor you

Hence a C&G course in woodworking may still be worthwhile, and may not be comparable to an IT C&G course.

Most furniture production these days is just basically factory work, i doubt you would need any qualifications.

I agree. I'd be looking at the course for the development of my woodworking skills as well though. I have a really strong interest in becoming a luthier, so the hands on experience gained from this course may be applicable.

zootfloot · 29 Mar 2010 at 15:34

Its a weird one this, have discussed it many times before.

As an apprentice i did 3 city and guilds courses, as did most of my friends (joinery, brick laying, plumbing, engineering etc) i have a feeling that they were more hands on than many other courses that may have been available.

I since went back to college for different courses, refreshers etc and to be honest the stuff they teach now is garbage (NVQ's), so much theory work its unbelievable.

A young lad on one of my courses did an nvq in electronic engineering and at the end of his first year he still hadnt used a soldering iron!

I suppose things move on, but to say that C&G courses are mickey mouse is both insulting and ignorant, especially as they were what was available at the time.

Mp4 · 29 Mar 2010 at 15:34

Smithy said:
Hence a C&G course in woodworking may still be worthwhile, and may not be comparable to an IT C&G course.

Oh don't compare 2004 IT quallies to woodworking totally diffrent aspect anyhow!

DJMK4 · 29 Mar 2010 at 15:41

Mp4 said:
City & Guilds:

Level III Advanced Diploma for I.T. Practitioners (ICT Systems Support) (Oct 2004)
Level II Diploma for I.T. Practitioners (ICT Systems Support) (July 2003)
Level II Diploma for I.T. Users (July 2003)

GNVQ:Information & Communication Technology

This is exactly the same as what I did, and they got me into University.

Mark A · 29 Mar 2010 at 15:42

Smithy said:
Hence a C&G course in woodworking may still be worthwhile, and may not be comparable to an IT C&G course.

I agree. I'd be looking at the course for the development of my woodworking skills as well though. I have a really strong interest in becoming a luthier, so the hands on experience gained from this course may be applicable.

Thats true. All depends on the course, the college facilities and the tutors i guess.

When i was at college I joined a week late and the tutor was some old guy who looked like he could die at any moment. He didn't even show me how to use the machines and just let me get on with it :eek:

.

Used pretty much all the machines I'd ever need to use in a workshop environment:

band resaw, band saw, cross cut, table saw, rip saw, overhead router, spindle moulder, tennoner, morticer, belt sander, thickneser, surface planer etc etc.

In the first year the whole group make a few items of furniture using a mix of traditional and modern techniques. Then in the second year you design a piece from the ground up, it totally your choice what you make.

Also at the college i was at you could go into the workshop on your days off and make pretty much whatever you wanted. Youd have to pay a small amount to cover the materials used though. I made an air rifle stock out of walnut in my spare time.

Mp4 · 29 Mar 2010 at 15:46

DJMK4 said:
This is exactly the same as what I did, and they got me into University.

DJ you still at Uni?

When they said what the uni offers etc it sounded a waste of time (what i did at college and programming - which doesn't appeal in the slightest)

Beasty · 29 Mar 2010 at 15:46

Steve2000 said:
Two words: Not very.

I did a L3 IT C&G Advanced Diploma in Systems Support course at college and the standard of teaching and work set gave me this impression too.

Got me my job as an IT Support Technician though to be fair. Or at least, it served as a qualification they wanted, the actual course ended up teaching me very little I didn't already know.

Smithy · 29 Mar 2010 at 15:53

Beasty said:
Got me my job as an IT Support Technician though to be fair. Or at least, it served as a qualification they wanted, the actual course ended up teaching me very little I didn't already know.

This is another point. Rather like university degrees, qualifications like these are almost becoming a basic requirement rather than a job winner.