Police powers when being stopped (on foot or in a car). Answers from cops?

izoneiz

izoneiz

izoneiz

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Hi all,

Something I saw online last night provoked me to start this thread. I'm hoping to get answers from either lawyers, or British police officers, or people familiar with the law, rather than general opinion et cetera.

In short, I'm trying to find out what a private individual's rights are if stopped by a police officer. I realised I know much more about what the situation is in the USA - I'd like to get the same level of knowledge for situations in the UK.

I've prepared two examples, and would appreciate answers for both.

1. Driving mildly above the speed limit, and getting pulled over (say 35/36 in a 30). In the US, a driver isn't legally required to get out of the car, or wind the window down past the amount required to hand the officer documents. The cop can't search the car without a warrant, unless he sees evidence of drug/alcohol use through the windows, sees a weapon et cetera. (Give or take). What's the situation in the UK? Does a driver have to get out? Does he have to consent to a search? IS there such a thing as a search warrant in the UK?

2. Getting stopped on the street, let's say for something minor. E.g., I partially match the description of someone who stole a coat from a local store, but I'm not actually the thief - merely someone who looks similar. The thief is thought to have a knife. I don't. What do I HAVE to do? As far as I understand, I have to tell them my name. What about being searched? Am I legally obligated to a search if they don't have a warrant? Is there such a thing as a personal search warrant in the UK? Do I have to answer any questions regarding where I'm going, or who I am, other than my name? Do I have to provide identification? If I remain silent, or provide the officer with no information other than what is legally required of me, can they detain me? If so, can they take me to a police station, and FORCE me to be searched there without a "warrant"?

The reason I'm asking is that thinking back to when I was 18, I was pulled over when I stupidly drove down a bus lane without knowing it. The cop asked to search my car: I didn't know what to do, and had nothing to hide, so I said yes. They also patted me down. I also told them everything about where I was going, who I was et cetera. Thinking back, I feel that I gave them WAY too much. I'd like to know what to do if I am ever pulled over again, or if I am ever stopped in the street for whatever reason.

Thanks!

PS, I have been pulled over a few times since the bus-lane incident, and haven't been searched.
 
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Spending a lot of time on the photography and they get stopped a lot on foot I am pretty certain that you only have to give them your details when you get stopped driving.
 
1. An PC can search a vehicle if he suspects that the vehicle may contain drugs, weapons or be involved in connection with specific offences. The officer does not require a warrant or your permission. If they wish to search the car they can remove you for the duration.

2. If an officer suspects you may have a weapon/stolen goods on you he can search you under S1 of PACE. You do not have to give your name at this time. They can use reasonable force to search you there but they may not remove clothing. If they suspect you have something inside your clothing they can take you to a police station and give you a strip search.

The perception of warrants is often very American. UK police officers can even search your home without a court warrant under certain circumstances.

Also bear in mind that if you are non-cooperative other suspicions may lead to you being detained for much longer than you otherwise would.
 
As Scotland has diff laws than E&W, it might be diff down South but -


izoneiz said:
1. Driving mildly above the speed limit, and getting pulled over (say 35/36 in a 30). In the US, a driver isn't legally required to get out of the car, or wind the window down past the amount required to hand the officer documents. The cop can't search the car without a warrant, unless he sees evidence of drug/alcohol use through the windows, sees a weapon et cetera. (Give or take). What's the situation in the UK? Does a driver have to get out? Does he have to consent to a search? IS there such a thing as a search warrant in the UK?
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Driver doesn't need to get out. As you have stated that the driver has commited a "relevant offence" (in this case speeding) then the cop may "require" you, under s.172 RTA 1988, to state who is driving the car at the material time (seems silly but this adds corroboration and evidence if the driver ADMITS they were driving under caution even if its obvious they are driving)

Also, as the cop has REASONABLE suspicion that a crime has been commited, they may "require" any person they believe to have commited OR witnessed the crime to give them their details which is s.13 Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995.

If the person is a suspect then the cop can require this person to remain with them until their details are verified if this can be done quickly (failure to remain is an arrestable offence).

If the person is a witness (likea passenger in this case) then a cop can also require them to give their details but have no powers to have them remainthere while the details are verified.


SEARCH:

If the cop has REASONABLE suspicion to beleive there may be drugs in the car then they can search ANYONE in the car AND the car itself under s.23 of Misuse of Drugs Act 1971.



2. Getting stopped on the street, let's say for something minor. E.g., I partially match the description of something who stole a coat from a local store, but I'm not actually the thief - merely someone who looks similar. The thief is thought to have a knife. I don't. What do I HAVE to do? As far as I understand, I have to tell them my name. What about being searched? Am I legally obligated to a search if they don't have a warrant? Is there such a thing as a personal search warrant in the UK? Do I have to answer any questions regarding where I'm going, or who I am, other than my name? Do I have to provide identification? If I remain silent, or provide the officer with no information other than what is legally required of me, can they detain me? If so, can they take my to a police station, and FORCE me to be searched there without a "warrant"?
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The key section is here is that, as you state, you closely match someone who has been reported as commiting a crime AND may have an offensive weapon.

Simply put, its the same as the first scenario i.e. Section 13 of said Act, where you can REASONABLY be suspected of commiting the crime so you must give all personal details you state AND remain with the cops till they are verified if this can be done quickly.


SEARCH:

As the cops can REASONABLY suspect you of:

a) Having an offemsive weapon
b) Having stolen goods on your person

The cops can legally search you under 2 different pieces of legislation. Those being:

a) s.50 Criminal Law (Consolidation)(Scotland) Act 1995 for the knife
b) s.60 Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982 for the stolen property

Both powers of search allow you to be detained for as long as necessary to conduct the search.



Note: All search powers above do NOT require a warrant.


The key to the searches (and the taking of the details) is that the cops must state WHY they are searching you/taking details from you.



Edit: Meant to add - refusal/obstruction of these searches is an offence.
 
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The question is though unless you have anything to hide, e.g you are the person who has a knife then why would you not co-operate with the police, at the end of the day they are doing their job and their job is protecting us, so if they beleive you have a weapon on you why should they not search you?
 
Because the mass public belive that if you get stopped by the police and are searched then you must have done something wrong even if you haven't....

Generally this wouldnt matter but imagine getting searched while people you knew or neigbours etc walked/drove past and had the mindset I mention above... Suddenly you are a "bit dodgy"

Again, not everyone thinks like this but a lot do.
 
starfighter said:
Basically we live in a police state and have no rights.
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No, if you lived in a police state you wouldn't be able to say that/in the next few days be having your door and head smashed in by Von on his daily beat the dissidents.






As the cops can REASONABLY suspect you of:

a) Having an offemsive weapon
b) Having stolen goods on your person

The cops can legally search you under 2 different pieces of legislation. Those being:

a) s.50 Criminal Law (Consolidation)(Scotland) Act 1995 for the knife
b) s.60 Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982 for the stolen property

Both powers of search allow you to be detained for as long as necessary to conduct the search.
Click to expand...

Do they have to prove the reason/report in before they can?


Ie offier thinks you look dodgy so stops you and says you match a description of a thief etc. Can they just do hat or do they have to actually radio/phone it in and log it?

Could you ask them for the number of the station etc and ring them first to see if there is such a report?
 
I was once pulled over because "according" to the office one of my break lights was staying on. She asked me step out of the car and the other police would press the breaks to show me what she meant. So we went to the back of my car and the other officer who had now sat in my driving seat started to look through my bag that was in the front seat and glove box.

The funny thing was my bag was filled with the DVDs I had got for Christmas and I was on my way to a nightshift to watch said DVDs because this time of year in my work is dead and we need to stay active just in case the phone goes off.

Back to the story we stood at the back of the car and I ask the police women if the other police women is going to show me what she meant to which the officer who I’m standing with shouts to stand on the break. Surprisingly nothing was wrong, the officers carried on trying to prove there point but the breaks all worked fine at this point. I'm guessing it was a intermittent fault or just the reason they used to pull me over. I wasn’t worried about them looking through my car at the time it would have just been nice if they asked. But it seemed once she couldn’t prove there was a issue with my break lights she then breathalysed me, checked my tyres and car over to find an issue lucky enough everything came back fine.

I wasn’t worried as it could have been a simple mistake the officer made or my car did have an issue just for a few seconds (the problem was never seen again). But at the time it really seemed like they just wanted to find a problem but then again given it was Christmas I guess they might have just been doing harsh checks to catch drink drivers.

Sorry to high jack the thread with my lame story just thought I would share as it bugged me at the time. I had nothing to hide and let the police do their job but sometimes I wonder if I should have kicked up a fuss for them just looking without asking as i think that’s unfair. But oh well meh!
 
Amleto said:
if questioned, do the police have to give reasons for their suspicions?
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If you are stopped and informed that you are to be searched ( which must be with reasonable grounds unless Sec 44 of the Terrorism Act ), then the seraching officer must disclose the following as required under the Police And Criminal evidence Act.

The grounds for the search, the object of the search, officers name ( or number if a terror seearch ) and if a plain clothes officer then a warrant card must be produced and you must also be informed that you are entitlled to a copy of the search record.
 
Mammalian said:
this bit confuses me :confused: how can you give a cop that's trying to do his job WAY too much?
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I guess if the officer is corrupt or bad/bent. Then if you give them to much freedom that they arent allowed under law they could abuse their power. I know this is rare but I'm just saying one of the few reasons I could think for his statement. Also I stated "under law" :D please i have no idea what i'm taking about I'm just saying if there are laws that limit what they are or arent allowed to do. Maybe someone knows can say whats right or wrong as I have no idea.
 
Von Smallhausen said:
The grounds for the search, the object of the search, officers name ( or number if a terror seearch ) and if a plain clothes officer then a warrant card must be produced and you must also be informed that you are entitlled to a copy of the search record.
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Do they have to tell you that automatically? or only if you ask?

Because I've been searched about 20 times, and they don't say anything at all other than, "Section 60 (or) 1 (or) 44, Have you got anything sharp in your pockets?" and then they just start sticking their hands in my pockets. A lot of the time they don't even say what section or law.
 
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