Police powers when being stopped (on foot or in a car). Answers from cops?

asim18 said:
Do they have to tell you that automatically? or only if you ask?

Because I've been searched about 20 times, and they don't say anything at all other than, "Section 60 (or) 1 (or) 44, Have you got anything sharp in your pockets?" and then they just start sticking their hands in my pockets. A lot of the time they don't even say what section or law.
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There is no requirement to state what act and section but the grounds for the search must be given and you shouldn't have to ask for it.

Anything less is technically a breach of PACE and thus could be an illegal search. This legislation is covered by Section 2 of PACE.
 
If stopped why would you have an issue with being searched? Good citizens surely make it easy for the Police to go about their business without feeling their human rights have been damaged? Get over yourselves, do as you are asked to do and move on. If you give no attitude it will be over in seconds, if you have body language that would make any sane person want to give you a slap for being annoying is it any wonder that people who deal with mainly the gutter dwellers of this country day in day out give a bit back and get tired of it. I know loads of coppers, vast majority are good eggs and one or two are dicks but such is life.
 
Housey said:
If stopped why would you have an issue with being searched?
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Everyone has a right to privacy and to undertake their daily business without interruption. A stop and search is a breach of that and, as such, there needs to be a valid reason for such an infringement of your rights. Where there is a valid reason (i.e. it goes towards improving and maintaining society) then, and only then, it is appropriate.

Housey said:
Good citizens surely make it easy for the Police to go about their business without feeling their human rights have been damaged?
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The state is subservient to its citizens not the other way around.
 
Housey said:
If stopped why would you have an issue with being searched? Good citizens surely make it easy for the Police to go about their business without feeling their human rights have been damaged? Get over yourselves, do as you are asked to do and move on. If you give no attitude it will be over in seconds, if you have body language that would make any sane person want to give you a slap for being annoying is it any wonder that people who deal with mainly the gutter dwellers of this country day in day out give a bit back and get tired of it. I know loads of coppers, vast majority are good eggs and one or two are dicks but such is life.
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I don't have an issue with being searched. I have issues with the officers. They are absolute ****s, rude and think they own the streets. They see a asian or black teenager and automatically assume he's a murderer/drug dealer. When I ask them why they're searching me, they say "We ask the questions round here".

Ok, so I'm in east london, and just yesterday a Chinese man got stabbed on the corner of my road, but there's no need to be so rude.
 
fini said:
Everyone has a right to privacy and to undertake their daily business without interruption. A stop and search is a breach of that and, as such, there needs to be a valid reason for such an infringement of your rights. Where there is a valid reason (i.e. it goes towards improving and maintaining society) then, and only then, it is appropriate.


The state is subservient to its citizens not the other way around.
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asim18 said:
I don't have an issue with being searched. I have issues with the officers. They are absolute ****s, rude and think they own the streets. They see a asian or black teenager and automatically assume he's a murderer/drug dealer. When I ask them why they're searching me, they say "We ask the questions round here".

Ok, so I'm in east london, and just yesterday a Chinese man got stabbed on the corner of my road, but there's no need to be so rude.
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As I said, get over yourself, they have a job to do in difficult times.
 
asim18 said:
I don't have an issue with being searched. I have issues with the officers. They are absolute ****s, rude and think they own the streets. They see a asian or black teenager and automatically assume he's a murderer/drug dealer. When I ask them why they're searching me, they say "We ask the questions round here".

Ok, so I'm in east london, and just yesterday a Chinese man got stabbed on the corner of my road, but there's no need to be so rude.
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you completely forget they're working when they say things like "we ask the questions round here". it appears they're trying to assert their authority as this gets better results, so that they do a better job, which is the protect the public. they have lived lives where they're shown that saying "We ask the questions round here" works better then being you're best friend. don't complain at the cops that that's what the public respond better to. if acting as your friend and answering your questions works better, why wouldn't they?
 
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asim18 said:
I don't have an issue with being searched. I have issues with the officers. They are absolute ****s, rude and think they own the streets. They see a asian or black teenager and automatically assume he's a murderer/drug dealer. When I ask them why they're searching me, they say "We ask the questions round here".

Ok, so I'm in east london, and just yesterday a Chinese man got stabbed on the corner of my road, but there's no need to be so rude.
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Then use the complaints system in place ?
 
fini said:
Everyone has a right to privacy and to undertake their daily business without interruption. A stop and search is a breach of that and, as such, there needs to be a valid reason for such an infringement of your rights. Where there is a valid reason (i.e. it goes towards improving and maintaining society) then, and only then, it is appropriate.


The state is subservient to its citizens not the other way around.
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That was the theory before Labour came to power and introduced laws that specifically make it the other way around.
 
It just seems like the Yanks have the right idea. I know we don't live in a police state compared to many places in the world but it is a bit worrying to think a police officer could quite easily search any car they wanted without any real proof.

While most police are obviously just trying to do their job there are always going to be some that abuse their power.
 
I come from a generation where respect is earned, no a given. When I grew up, a couple of generations back, a Policeman was to be respected, simple. If I was 'gobby' I expected a clip around the ear, I expected my mum and dad to be annoyed and also get a clip around the ear from mum for being cheeky. If I got stopped and I did for silly things I was scared, really shaking. Today we have generations who use respect as a throw away word, who uphold their personal rights without feeling they need to contribute or help those enforcing those rights with some twisted views of personal freedom. Some Police officers are scum, like any society but the FACT is most are good people doing an increasingly difficult job in a society that is full of more and more people who feel they are owed something without appreciating the circumstances in which they live. My mum and nan were always getting stopped in Brum in the early 70's for bag checks when walking down the road. Why? Well the were Irish and to them they were more than happy to help as they weren't part of the problem....but then they knew it.
 
starfighter said:
It just seems like the Yanks have the right idea. I know we don't live in a police state compared to many places in the world but it is a bit worrying to think a police officer could quite easily search any car they wanted without any real proof.

While most police are obviously just trying to do their job there are always going to be some that abuse their power.
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They don't I promise you, they have officers who enforce a set or rules without any form of pragmatism, their version of street law is something I would hate to see over here.
 
starfighter said:
It just seems like the Yanks have the right idea. I know we don't live in a police state compared to many places in the world but it is a bit worrying to think a police officer could quite easily search any car they wanted without any real proof.

While most police are obviously just trying to do their job there are always going to be some that abuse their power.
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The Yanks, as a whole, have a very different style of Policing and the laws they they have to obey reflect that.
 
Housey said:
As I said, get over yourself, they have a job to do in difficult times.
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Get over myself? I was talking about the interaction that people have with police in general. It is worth remembering the history of the police in which Peelers were created for the sole purpose of apprehending evil doers and bringing them before the courts. You will find many an ex police-officer now opining the police force's increasing movement towards a paramilitary force. When police lost their capes and gained their body-armour, it is clear to see that something was lost.

Could I also question what you mean by 'difficult times'? Police numbers are at an all time high, crimes (whether violent or non-violent) are at an historic low yet the amount of complaints against the police (at around 31 thousand a year) haven't changed since the 80s.

This, however, is entirely irrelevant to the simple question of whether each citizen has a duty to monitor police behaviour and report wrongful acts for the good of the justice system. I would say that you do - how else will the police ever otherwise improve? To do so, police actions must be challenged and, as such, it is people like yourself who do as the police say without question, that need to modify their behaviour.
 
fini said:
Get over myself? I was talking about the interaction that people have with police in general. It is worth remembering the history of the police in which Peelers were created for the sole purpose of apprehending evil doers and bringing them before the courts. You will find many an ex police-officer now opining the police force's increasing movement towards a paramilitary force. When police lost their capes and gained their body-armour, it is clear to see that something was lost.
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Firstly, we are not a paramilitary force. Never have been and I comfortably say we never will be.

There was also the best part of 20 years between police not wearing capes and the introduction of the first body armours. The murder of Northumbria police sergeant Bill Forth in the early 90s was the catalyst for police to start issuing better personal protective equipment.

In other words, they moved with the times they moved with the times and the threats they faced. Are you advocating we move back to capes ? I dare say it will be successful as a crazed knifeman will likely laught his **** off before shanking someone when he sees a caped cop.

Could I also question what you mean by 'difficult times'? Police numbers are at an all time high, crimes (whether violent or non-violent) are at an historic low yet the amount of complaints against the police (at around 31 thousand a year) haven't changed since the 80s.
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And government manipulation of crime figures is at an all time high.

We are now seeing every force having to make swingeing cuts and efficiency savings and that will inevitably affect front line police numbers when they are not replaced through retirements etc.

As for complaints, please do not forget that many, in fact most, are spurious.

This, however, is entirely irrelevant to the simple question of whether each citizen has a duty to monitor police behaviour and report wrongful acts for the good of the justice system. I would say that you do - how else will the police ever otherwise improve? To do so, police actions must be challenged and, as such, it is people like yourself who do as the police say without question, that need to modify their behaviour.
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There we are in agreement except one thing.

The police force is a disciplined service and if an order is lawful then you are expected to carry it out.
 
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fini said:
Get over myself? I was talking about the interaction that people have with police in general. It is worth remembering the history of the police in which Peelers were created for the sole purpose of apprehending evil doers and bringing them before the courts. You will find many an ex police-officer now opining the police force's increasing movement towards a paramilitary force. When police lost their capes and gained their body-armour, it is clear to see that something was lost.
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I'm sorry, are you suggesting that police officers shouldn't be wearing body armour? Considering the increase in knife crime and the numbers of people now carrying offensive wepaons, I think that is just downright ridiculous. I certainly wouldn't be going out without my body armour on and with the rest of my PPE.
 
Housey said:
If stopped why would you have an issue with being searched?
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Would you not be ever so slightly annoyed at being searched if it happened in front of friends, neighbours, etc? As said, a great deal of people will automatically change their opinion of you if they saw you getting searched by the police, regardless of if you didn't do anything wrong.

Whilst I certainly wouldn't have a problem co-operating, I'd still be rather annoyed.
 
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