MMOs - time-wasting or innocent fun?

games are created for entertaining, if you think entertaining is time waste, then all of them are.
otherwise if you enjoyed playing, then the opposite is true
 
Spirited said:
Most people won't know what you're talking about, FoxEye. I have a sneaking suspicion you, I, and Tombstone will.

MMO's were first intended to be built as worlds..... (snipped the rest of the quote so that its not a huge quote :) )
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I have to agree that there has been a polar shift in MMOs.

If you were to ask me today what the state of the MMO genre is, I would say stale and rapidly dying. Yes yes...I know that the finances and number of people playing would indicate differently, but imo the genre is an extremely pale shadow of what it once was.

Been playing MMOs since 1997 and if I had to assess those 13 years of the genre I would say that there is a very very clear divide between the first 7 years and the second 7 years. IMO, the first 7 years of MMOs were massively, enormously better than the 2nd 7 years.

Those first 7 years consisted of MMOs, like UO, EQ, AC and Daoc. MMOs with strong emphasis on community, socialising, grouping, lore, imagination, player created "content", exploring, risk vs reward and the creation of a world.

The second 7 years have consisted of WoW, Lotro, AoC and Warhammer. MMOs where increasingly the earlier MMO aspects have been pushed to one side and faded, replaced instead with elitism, isolation, private chat/voicechat, soloing, linearity/hand holding, virtually no player created "content", radar pointers to show you where to go, virtually no risk vs reward and the creation of a graphical progression spreadsheet rather than a world.

I miss those early days of MMOs, but frankly I cannot see them returning. The biggest two reasons being that generally speaking the MMO companies have now seen the amount of £££s that can be made by appealing to the lowest factors of gamer attributes (ie, greed, ego and the desire to have what other players dont and show it off) , and the second reason that the gamerbase of the early MMOs is much different than the gamerbase now.

Its a pity (from my viewpoint at least), but I am thankful that I can say that I experienced those early MMO days and have those memories.
 
I had my only ever true long term MMO experiance with Lineage 2 I played for 2 years and it was the community that made it, I had a great clan that I love dplaying with. Lineage II was a korean grind fest with little customisability. It was super addictive I had clan mates buying gold off chinese farmers. But The end game grew tiring with politics and powerplayers ruining the experiance.

Every time I start a new MMO I give up because the time commitment is just too great and dealing with egomanical idiots is too much, id rather play L4D2 or TF2 which gives me the community without the need for grinding (dont mention TF2 hats).
 
bhavv said:
Its not a waste of time, time is plentiful.

However, MMOs with fees are a waste of money that I'd rather spend elsewhere.
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I do not play MMOs at all but i do not agree at all, if i am going to invest so much time playing what is 15quid a month? Less than hours work for most people.
 
The feeling of success and achievement one gets from playing an MMO is heavily addictive. I remember playing for hours in UO to achieve grand mastery in swords back in the day, then spending days upon days chasing dragon spawns of their loot. At the end of it there was a real sense of achievement.

You don't see that sort of long-term achievement in FPS games. Why else does most modern FPS games have some kind of ranking system/achievements? Without it the game would die a horrible death within months of release.
 
This Side Up said:
The feeling of success and achievement one gets from playing an MMO is heavily addictive. I remember playing for hours in UO to achieve grand mastery in swords back in the day, then spending days upon days chasing dragon spawns of their loot. At the end of it there was a real sense of achievement.

You don't see that sort of long-term achievement in FPS games. Why else does most modern FPS games have some kind of ranking system/achievements? Without it the game would die a horrible death within months of release.
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You no longer see that sense of achievement in modern MMOs and when you do it's generally via some drop/item that you've got, which in the next expansion is obsolete.

That's the problem I have with them these days, just as you think you're fairly well kitted out, you have to start over. It's an enormous waste of time and I feel sorry for anyone playing a modern MMO.
 
Spirited said:
Most people won't know what you're talking about, FoxEye. I have a sneaking suspicion you, I, and Tombstone will.

MMO's were first intended to be built as worlds. These worlds didn't care whether you 'made it' or didn't, they weren't playgrounds where you're lead about by a quest log. There were no quest NPC's conveniently placed right before your eyes with a ! sign. You had to go out, find your adventure, and make it your own story. You got a group, and went into a dungeon not because you had a quest, but because you wanted to kill some cool stuff with friends and level up. Community was EVERYTHING in old skool MMO's.

There was a zone in EverQuest called Plane of Fear. Raid zone. Just zoning into that place could make or break your raid. A lot of raids fell apart because they couldn't handle the break in. And when your raid fell apart you had to get to your corpse and collect all your gear, otherwise you'd lose it all. When that happened, you would sometimes need to call in the help of another guild. I am talking about a 4 hour corpse run here. And this is before you've even got to a named (elite).

Of course, the rewards were awesome. But you had to be absolutely on top of your game to get them. You brought your 'A' game to Fear, anything less would get you reamed. Player skill and knowledge were the determining factors here, not dps and gear stats,

That was EQ1. UO was even more hardcore, but the focus there was in PvP. Not the 'capture the flag' horse **** you see in modern PvP MMO's. There were no instances you could hide in in UO, no leaderboards, no rewards. You PvP'ed because you chose to. UO was a 'take all your gear, take screenshots, and post them on your guild website' PvP. You PvP'ed not because there was some points in it, you PvP'ed because they were the ENEMY. This was true world pvp, and from it sprung inter-guild politics and server politics that made you feel part of something special. It wasn't just about ganking, there were ramifications for doing what you felt like doing.

My point? There is no way players of today would be able to handle such worlds. They're simply too soft, too used to addons and too used to convenience to even contemplate areas like Plane of Fear. And that's just PvE. Imagine a lvl 12, badmouthing a lvl 50 and the 50 having the ability to deal out justice the way they see fit. Barrens Chat would cease to exist. This would be a community policing themselves, and making up a political structure. Sure, go ahead and ninja that BP. Are you ready for the consequences?
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Elitist much? I missed the years of UO and EQ but atmosphere and community are something I agree is lacking from many games; is it the case that no one plays those games anymore or what?
 
shroomz said:
Elitist much? I missed the years of UO and EQ but atmosphere and community are something I agree is lacking from many games; is it the case that no one plays those games anymore or what?
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There are some who still play UO, EQ1, Daoc and AC. Very very few now though. Not surprising I suppose after a decade and more. :)
 
The problem is with gaming in any form and whether you enjoy it or not, is that ultimately, you get nothing for your time.

mmorpgs end, they all do, WoW and Eve will both end at some point meaning that the time put in was ultimately for nothing.

I've wasted months and maybe years playing online games, I do enjoy it but I always think to myself "But I could have done this..."

Real life should always come first!
 
ah but the very fleeting nature of existance is waste!!

you work a job for your life and all you get is material? if you choose to place worth in material then a job is justified.
if you choose to place worth in passing of time in a game, then playing a game is justified

i like games because they're an embodiment of the natural waste of all existance!

yeeeah man!!!!
 
Sone said:
I do not play MMOs at all but i do not agree at all, if i am going to invest so much time playing what is 15quid a month? Less than hours work for most people.
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This made me "lol" I wish the average rate of pay round here was even close to this figure..... I play WoW on a casual level, few hours during the week, and maybe an hour or two at the weekends, I'm quite happy to pay a tenner a month or whatever it is these days.
 
AHarvey said:
The problem is with gaming in any form and whether you enjoy it or not, is that ultimately, you get nothing for your time.

mmorpgs end, they all do, WoW and Eve will both end at some point meaning that the time put in was ultimately for nothing.

I've wasted months and maybe years playing online games, I do enjoy it but I always think to myself "But I could have done this..."

Real life should always come first!
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Life ends too ...

PS: I do not play an MMO currently, but I would prefer to instead of let's say "working X amount of hours so that someone else with "circumstances" can enjoy Y amount of luxury".
 
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I never felt playing was pointless as it was the experience that was important rather than a solid outcome - although players could make a fair bit of cash selling high end characters on ebay ;)

What Spirited wrote about Plane of Fear makes me misty eyed with recollection of naked (itemless) Fear breaks. Modern mmo's seem to lack any real risk and lose out on tension as a result.
 
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