Scrappage Continued

[[TW]Fox]

C) Surely some of those cars are worth more than the £2k the previous owners scrapped them for?

Probably, yes. I'd imagine most of those Golfs are worth, privately, £2-3k. But if they are worth £1990 trade, for example, then a dealer will simply put the deal through as scrappage instead. A car with a trade price less than the scrappage threshold might be worth up to £3500 on the retail/private sale market. But franchised dealers wont put cars like that on the forecourt so would never get retail money for them.

Instead, they are destroyed.

 

[DM]

C) Surely some of those cars are worth more than the £2k the previous owners scrapped them for?

A lot people just go for convenience if its only a couple of grand in it.

My mother for example wouldnt dream of privately selling a car, she just cant be arsed, regardless of how much she loses every time.

 

[ardy89]

I take it these car's are crushed as whole and parts are not sold indvidually, wouldn't that make more sense. Not that scrapping them in the first place makes sense as you've stated. It's just.......I need the bumper off of theat metropolis blue focus

 

[Randomface74]

I have a scrappable car and I'd happily trade it for almost any of those cars.

 

[Kitchster_uk]

Add in just how easy it is to get a decent chunk off list price anyway. You'd get a grand off a decent price car and almost every car in that pic is worth at least another grand, probably more. If you use fox' example above, you'd get 800 off the list at least and a mk4 golf bottom spec should fetch £1500 private sale or upwards from £2k on a forecourt. The owners ofmany of those cars are actually being robbed by the govenment! Obscene.

 

[bledd]

That's Lashout's backyard

 

[mejinks]

The trouble is you have idiots who believe everything they are told and scrap a perfectly good car because "they are getting a good deal" and you have Lord Mandelson who has the craziest of ideas following short holidays aboard industry leaders boats..

I'm not saying he is a corrupt, scaming, self perpetuating moron who is clearly on the take and should be investigated and locked up, I will leave that to you to decide.

 

[DM]

Add in just how easy it is to get a decent chunk off list price anyway. You'd get a grand off a decent price car and almost every car in that pic is worth at least another grand, probably more. If you use fox' example above, you'd get 800 off the list at least and a mk4 golf bottom spec should fetch £1500 private sale or up to £2k on a forecourt. The owners ofmany of those cars are actually being robbed by the govenment! Obscene.

They are not being robbed at all, they are just taking the convenient option.

 

[Felix]

Ardy, while you are getting the bumper could you get me the golf mk4 alloys?

 

[ajstan]

In the meantime, it's nice to know the old bangers NOT covered by scrappage - ie your typical *****-nail which fails every MOT and gets sold on to somebody even less capable of looking after it after a few months - are still on our nations roads, whilst the ones that DID qualify for the scheme - ie decent condition cars owned for a long period of time by owners wealthy enough to consider new cars - are gone.

I can't believe the unbelievable stupidity of some of the old owners of these cars to think they are worth less than £2k and so choose the scrappage discount and not selling privately.

I see a Merc M class in there - I do hate them, but surely its worth more than £2k?

 

[[TW]Fox]

Using data from the SMMT, lets see who really benefits from scrappage with a few facts.

70% of cars purchased under scrappage are new supermini class cars or smaller.
The biggest seller of cars traded in under scrappage in Jul-Sep last year in terms of total cars sold using the scrappage scheme was Hyundai.
In terms of 'British' firms (Or firms we perceive to be British) Jaguar sold just 73 cars under Scrappage in the same period. Land Rover? Barely 100.

So, we can see where the benefit really went - Far eastern manufacturers building cheap and cheerful Superminis.

Thats really benefitted the British economy, hasn't it?

I wonder what the effect on the independent motor sector really is?

 

[manic_man]

So what? There only cars, who gives a hoot what the owner chooses to do with HIS/HER car.

So what if little old Nora is now in a brand new 2010 plate Kia, its there life.


My take on it.

Producing a single car uses a huge amount of resources both in the production line it takes and the materials that go into making it. Especially plastics.

If Nora had a perfectly serviceable and safe car putting out below government guideline levels of CO2, which is then sat in a car park to be partially recycled (takes energy) and then crushed (a good proportion of the materials will simply be cubed) and left to rust in a pile somewhere, this is a heinous waste of a perfectly usable vehicle.

How do you momentarily fix a broken economy? You inject cash into it, if it never gets fixed and all you do is keep injecting you get hyper-inflation and we're all using wheel barrows to take our cash for our loaves of bread...

The scrappage scheme will, in one or two cases, remove genuine bangers from the road and in those cases, fine. However in most cases its being used by people as an easy alternative to a bit of haggling. The ONLY winners are the car manufacturers. Which on some levels is a good thing.

But to say "who cares, it's their life" is very short-sighted. We live on a very crowded island on a relatively crowded planet, what one person does invariably will have a small but tangible impact on your life as well. If many people do it, the small impact becomes larger and more evident.

 

[Kitchster_uk]

A mate of mine has done it sensibly mind. He has chopped in an M reg Saab 900 with 240k on the clock which is ruined for a new 9-3 diesel. That's what should've been kicking around there - battered Escorts, old Astras and such-like. Things that are at the end of their life, not 10 year old M class mercs.

 

[Felix]

I drove a Hyundai i20 the other day, from the outside they seem ok but felt terrible to drive!

 

[DM]

I can't believe the unbelievable stupidity of some of the old owners of these cars to think they are worth less than £2k and so choose the scrappage discount and not selling privately.

I see a Merc M class in there - I do hate them, but surely its worth more than £2k?

Depends what it is but they are about from 2.5k privately.

 

[[TW]Fox]

A mate of mine has done it sensibly mind. He has chopped in an M reg Saab 900 with 240k on the clock which is ruined for a new 9-3 diesel. That's what should've been kicking around there - battered Escorts, old Astras and such-like. Things that are at the end of their life, not 10 year old M class mercs.

Exactly. Many supported the scheme before it was announced - I think they thought it would be a case of 'Trade in your belching, smoking, rusty heap of 15 year old Escort' rather than 'Trade in your lovely, mint condition, reliable Mk4 Golf'.

The rules were ridiculous. By insisting you had owned the car for over a year AND it had an MOT on it you removed all the dodgy bangers from eligibility from the scheme! How many people in properly tatty nails have owned them for a long period of time? Hardly any of them. How many of the people in properly tatty nails are in a financial position to buy a new car anyway even with Scrappage? Hardly any of them.

All it did was allow nice middle class people who've owned the same car for years and looked after it very well to simply get rid of it and get something new.

Removing EXACTLY the sort of used car you want to find in the sub £3k market from the market entirely, leaving behind the dross that should not have been on the road.

 

[Kitchster_uk]

They are not being robbed at all, they are just taking the convenient option.

And I'm sure the dealer said to the ofner of the E39 that he'd get a minimum of 1200-1500 on private sale plus if it was in good nick, upwards of 2k. And that, doing that would give them room to negotiate a good chunk to drive away the new car. Or even better that he could by a 1 year old example 2k under new list price and pocket the dosh from the sale of the E39....

 

[Dolph]

Using data from the SMMT, lets see who really benefits from scrappage with a few facts.

70% of cars purchased under scrappage are new supermini class cars or smaller.
The biggest seller of cars traded in under scrappage in Jul-Sep last year in terms of total cars sold using the scrappage scheme was Hyundai.
In terms of 'British' firms (Or firms we perceive to be British) Jaguar sold just 73 cars under Scrappage in the same period. Land Rover? Barely 100.

So, we can see where the benefit really went - Far eastern manufacturers building cheap and cheerful Superminis.

Thats really benefitted the British economy, hasn't it?

I wonder what the effect on the independent motor sector really is?

Presumably you missed that the number of people involved in the car trade outside of manufacturing dwarfs those employed in British car factories?

 

[DM]

And I'm sure the dealer said to the ofner of the E39 that he'd get a minimum of 1200-1500 on private sale plus if it was in good nick, upwards of 2k. And that, doing that would give them room to negotiate a good chunk to drive away the new car. Or even better that he could by a 1 year old example 2k under new list price and pocket the dosh from the sale of the E39....

Whats any of that got to do with that person WANTING to take the easy option? Ie, not have the arse ache of selling privately?

No one forced him to scrap it, he chose to.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Presumably you missed that the number of people involved in the car trade outside of manufacturing dwarfs those employed in British car factories?

No, I didn't miss that at all. Infact its entirely my point, I'm suprised you've missed that.

Lets make it more simple for you.

Of the people employed in the UK in the motor trade, what percentage of them work for franchised dealers (Who benefit under scrappage) and what percentage of them work for independent dealers, independent garages, motor factors, manufacturers of pattern parts, etc (Who do not benefit under scrappage, because used car retailers do not sell new i20's and you don't need to get your local spanner monkey to work on your i20)?