Wikileaks releases apache footage.

Vulcan · 6 Apr 2010 at 00:00

D D Danneh said:
"Come on buddy, all you gotta do is pick up a weapon"

Because the pilots already believe they are insurgents. They want them to pick up weapons so they are legally allowed to kill them.

What's that person carrying at 3:38?

KatanaDV20 · 6 Apr 2010 at 00:03

Oh my God.

Whats become of us? We cant call ourselves human anymore.

Extremely tough to watch this. I just sat here open-mouthed and with my hands on my face, I dont have the words. The weapon system optics on the Apache are powerful enough to distinguish between a camera and an AK-47.....

Gackt · 6 Apr 2010 at 00:04

wannabedamned said:
These videos arent meant for the public eye, The chatter and actions over there could never be understood by anyone not in the situation.

Oh okay, that makes it alright then. :rolleyes:

Surfer · 6 Apr 2010 at 00:05

TheCrow said:
Yes, there was deff 1 gun I saw and what looked like a guy setting up rpg on the corner. Though obv its not great video quality and I'm not trained to spot these things.

I dont know if they were insurgents or not, but if they were are you not glad that they got stopped before they killed our troops? As for the kids I feel that all too often they try and hide behind civilians, woman, children. Camp out in public buildings etc, yes its cover but it is their choice where to hide while "protecting" their people.

Sad that innocent people get caught in the cross fire.

Ok fair enough some of them do have guns but they certainly dont seem to be preparing to attack...i know the realities of war nowadays is to shoot first..think later...

What rpg do you see? This one?

A guy setting up an rpg on the corner.. looks like a camera to my untrained civilian eye..?

Its hard not to be emotional about this when its clearly sickening murderous behaviour perpetrated by US soldiers. Moreso when they gunned down the two "medics" (i say medics because they werent carrying any weapons or any threat at all) who were just wanting to help the wounded....

meghatronic · 6 Apr 2010 at 00:07

Surfer said:
A guy setting up an rpg on the corner.. looks like a camera to my untrained civilian eye..?

Or do you see a camera as you've been told to see a camera?

wannabedamned · 6 Apr 2010 at 00:08

Gackt said:
Oh okay, that makes it alright then.

What i said didnt make it alright, nor was I saying it was alright. What it was is a fact. We dont understand what they go through. There is a reason soldiers find it hard to reintegrate to society after wars.

They are used to killing, they are used to ending life in a way that makes the enemies life meaningless.

So no its not alright *big fat rolleyes* But its war and it shouldnt be viewed by us on computers sat in our comfy seats passing judgement.

TJM · 6 Apr 2010 at 00:10

chumpit said:
I would like to know why the op isnt posting pictures of insurgents detonating sucide bombs in markets then crying outrage?

Because everyone knows suicide bombers are murderers. The pilot and gunner in this video are presumably treated with some respect for being veterans when they are actually scum. The attack on the car was completely unjustifiable. They watched an unarmed man drag a wounded unarmed man to safety and then killed them both.

meghatronic said:
Or do you see a camera as you've been told to see a camera?

The man in question:

http://duckbar.mirror.waffleimages.com/files/71/7145bab8c090f35b3b2d306b63797d3780182321.jpg

It's a camera.

cheets64 · 6 Apr 2010 at 00:11

Like how they said "oh damn" when they here about the kid and say shouldnt "bring a kid to a battle" Well they didnt did they, crazy how easy it was to get the orders to engage and the fact the guy wanted to fire was getting worked up because the van was moving and getting ready to go.

Surfer · 6 Apr 2010 at 00:11

meghatronic said:
Or do you see a camera as you've been told to see a camera?

It looks like a camera (zoom lens) to me dude. But admittedly a few seconds after that pic he seems to point the camera at them ? So maybe that spooked the soldiers.

trent · 6 Apr 2010 at 00:15

The thing is if they really thought they had a RPG pointing at them with impending death would you.

A . Wait until command gave the green light and keep hovering around the area.
B . Get the Hell out of there , get the green light and go in all guns blazing.

meghatronic · 6 Apr 2010 at 00:15

Surfer said:
It looks like a camera (zoom lens) to me dude. But admittedly a few seconds after that pic he seems to point the camera at them ? So maybe that spooked the soldiers.

If I'd held a gun at your head and said, DO YOU SEE THE GUN, you'd probably say yes. Retrospect is a wonderful thing. I'm not defending their actions, but you know, they're obviously in the area for something... guys carrying things... I personally did 'see' guns/rifles. E.g.

Caged · 6 Apr 2010 at 00:18

As has already been mentioned, I can't really comment on what happened during the video because I don't have all the details, but assuming US officials had access to the video then the story they told the press at the time is shocking to say the least.

Vulcan · 6 Apr 2010 at 00:18

TJM said:
It's a camera.

Yes, but you know it's a photographer now after reading this thread, the pilots didn't know that.

Watch the video from 3:38 onwards...

Surfer · 6 Apr 2010 at 00:21

meghatronic said:
If I'd held a gun at your head and said, DO YOU SEE THE GUN, you'd probably say yes. Retrospect is a wonderful thing. I'm not defending their actions, but you know, they're obviously in the area for something... guys carrying things... I personally did 'see' guns/rifles. E.g.

yep saw them, thanks. So the initial attack could be justified for operational reasons.

But why attack the two medics from the van (helping pick up wounded etc) who clearly were not carrying weapons at all?

What operational reason can anyone give me that legitimizes that kind of action?

meghatronic · 6 Apr 2010 at 00:23

Surfer said:
But why attack the two medics from the van (helping pick up wounded etc) who clearly were not carrying weapons at all?

What operational reason can anyone give me that legitimizes that kind of action?

I appear to have only seen an abridged video. Shocked if this is true. Brb.

EDIT -okay, seen it. But, again, hypothetically, what if that injured guy they were picking up was the leader of the insurgency?

KatanaDV20 · 6 Apr 2010 at 00:27

Anyone know how far the Apaches were? Its like the crowd of people were oblivious to the clattering egg-beaters.

trent · 6 Apr 2010 at 00:31

They seem pretty far by the time delay of the bullets being shot and hitting the targets and when they zoom out it looks far.

Vulcan · 6 Apr 2010 at 00:32

KatanaDV20 said:
Anyone know how far the Apaches were? Its like the crowd of people were oblivious to the clattering egg-beaters.

The 30mm projectiles speed upon leaving the barrel is ~800m/s, and there's a 2 - 2.5 second delay between the sound and the impact, so I'm going to say 1.5+ Km.

ChroniC · 6 Apr 2010 at 00:34

That would be a hell of a shot with an RPG if that was correct. Unless these people have heat seeking missiles.

Surfer · 6 Apr 2010 at 00:35

meghatronic said:
I appear to have only seen an abridged video. Shocked if this is true. Brb.

EDIT -okay, seen it. But, again, hypothetically, what if that injured guy they were picking up was the leader of the insurgency?

Doesn't make any difference.

I cannot think of any hypothetical situation which would make it ok for unarmed "medics" to be gunned down when trying to carry away a wounded man.

Its never ok. You can see that right? You're just playing devils advocate yeah?

I can understand the soldiers firing on combatants but unarmed people who are performing the roles of medics and removing the wounded and dead.

Or is it the policy of US Army that every man, woman, child in iraq in a designated area (insurgent occupied area?) is to be treated as a combatant/ hostile?

EDIT: is it confirmed the two kids survived? (the two kids in the van)