EA follows Ubisoft, will sell titles with 'always on' DRM

[Streeteh]

If you're going to go along that route why even bother with it? Its only a step up from online activation, meaning you need to be connected when you play for the first time (ok a few steps but the point is there). Besides, if they can crack always on DRM, cracking 'periodic' DRM is surely even easier.

Well clearly it isn't as people still haven't cracked this form of periodic DRM.

The difference lies in the fact that with 'always on' DRM, the game has one component that looks for a connection to the server, crack this and the game is cracked. This system however relies on a series of unique prompts from the server every time something is achieved and in which order it is achieved. This is why the current workaround only allows you to play certain missions in a certain order; these are the only 'prompts' that the scene people have managed to recreate, log and build into their emulated server.

As soon as someone using this emulated server does something the scene people haven't or do it in a different order, the emulated server will fail to send out the correct prompt and the game will cease to function. In order to create a emulated server to allow for full exploration of what the game has to offer the scene people will need to do everything, in every possible order and integrate it into the emulated server. When the next game comes out with this sort of DRM, the developers can simply create a whole new set of prompts thus causing the whole process to start again.

It surely is possible to 'crack' the game in the normal manner, however again every moment a prompt kicks up this will need to be dealt with and worked around. There's probably thousands of different prompts to deal with and i can't see this happening any time soon again.

'Always on' is essentially one component of the game that needs to be cracked, this method is every event in the game.

[EDIT] Just thought i'd add, AC2 does have an 'always on' component to its DRM too, however this was cracked quite early after release, it's the rest of it that's got people stumped.

 

[Amnesia]

it will only be a matter of time before this form of DRM will be cracked 100% with no need for any servers. doesn't really matter if it's not 100% yet as the games released with it are crap anyway.
the 100% crack will be here before they put it on anything good.

 

[Evilsod]

Well clearly it isn't as people still haven't cracked this form of periodic DRM.

The difference lies in the fact that with 'always on' DRM, the game has one component that looks for a connection to the server, crack this and the game is cracked. This system however relies on a series of unique prompts from the server every time something is achieved and in which order it is achieved. This is why the current workaround only allows you to play certain missions in a certain order; these are the only 'prompts' that the scene people have managed to recreate, log and build into their emulated server.

As soon as someone using this emulated server does something the scene people haven't or do it in a different order, the emulated server will fail to send out the correct prompt and the game will cease to function. In order to create a emulated server to allow for full exploration of what the game has to offer the scene people will need to do everything, in every possible order and integrate it into the emulated server. When the next game comes out with this sort of DRM, the developers can simply create a whole new set of prompts thus causing the whole process to start again.

It surely is possible to 'crack' the game in the normal manner, however again every moment a prompt kicks up this will need to be dealt with and worked around. There's probably thousands of different prompts to deal with and i can't see this happening any time soon again.

'Always on' is essentially one component of the game that needs to be cracked, this method is every event in the game.

So why isn't this being used if its clearly a far superior system?

 

[Streeteh]

So why isn't this being used if its clearly a far superior system?

It is... in AC2... or is that not your question?

 

[Tefal]

When the next game comes out with this sort of DRM, the developers can simply create a whole new set of prompts thus causing the whole process to start again.d.

Problem is by the second or third game the crackers know the system and will be able to record/detect/copy the prompts much quicker.

 

[Streeteh]

Problem is by the second or third game the crackers know the system and will be able to record/detect/copy the prompts much quicker.

This is true, the problem lies with the fact that to copy the prompt, they'll need to recreate them. At present there's a bunch of scene peeps with a bunch of legit copies playing the game through, exploring every bit of the game they can and logging the prompts as they occur.

Again even changing the order that missions are undertaken modifies these prompts.

Unless scene peeps can come up with a way of tricking the servers into sending out all of the prompts in a short amount of time (and knowing what each means), they'll have to play through the game themselves en masse to get all the prompts together.

So essentially, it can be cracked using the approach they are currently using, but to completely unlock the game will take absolutely ages. As i say they'll have to do everything the game has to offer in different sequences. Personally, i think this approach isn't feasible as each game using this method will likely have a new set of unique prompts, there's certainly one out there as everything can be reverse engineered, but i don't think we'll see it for a while yet. Unfortunately i could be wrong.

 

[Evilsod]

It is... in AC2... or is that not your question?

Huh? Isn't AC2 the always on DRM? Or am i just confused.

 

[Streeteh]

Huh? Isn't AC2 the always on DRM? Or am i just confused.

See my edit, it has always on DRM, but that was cracked really early (this allowed people to launch the game), but as soon as they started a new game the 'periodic' DRM kicked in and the game would cease to function.

Essentially it had two things stopping you, one that would require a legit copy and connection to the server to even launch, and another that kept jabbering to the server every time something was achieved in the game. If it was coded as such the game could, for example, pause when it was unable to talk to the server when an event occurs and wait for communication to be restored, as was suggested previously. They've just done it so it kicks you out of the game as soon as the connection is lost, a bit of an oversight to say the least.


[EDIT] 'Periodic' is purely a term i've made up to help describe how the system functions. It does require a constant internet connection to function, but it relies on specific prompts in its design, prompts that occur at certain points throughout the game, hence 'periodic'.

 

[Evilsod]

See my edit, it has always on DRM, but it was cracked really early (this allowed people to launch the game), but as soon as they launched the game the periodic DRM kicked in and the game would cease to function.

Essentially it had two things stopping you, one that would require a legit copy and connection to the server to even launch, and another that kept jabbering to the server every time something was achieved in the game. If it was coded as such the game could, for example, pause when it was unable to talk to the server when an event occurs and wait for communication to be restored, as was suggested previously. They've just done it so it kicks you out of the game as soon as the connection is lost, a bit of an oversight to say the least.

Fair enough, wasn't aware of the second bit. Was wondering what took so long.

Surely there are other ways around that? Such as changing the query to the same thing all the time or stopping it asking altogether?

 

[Streeteh]

Surely there are other ways around that? Such as changing the query to the same thing all the time or stopping it asking altogether?

As i say i'm sure there is a way around, everything can be de constructed eventually. However just breaking communication to the server wouldn't work, rather cleverly the devs have made it so a key part of the game is stored on the server; the savegame. The core construction of the game looks for its savegames on a server, every time it autosaves it syncs up with one of those prompts. I imagine you'd have to completely rewrite the savegame system to work around it.

[EDIT] Some reading around indicates the game is '90% cracked' by this i assume that 90% of the content is available to someone playing the game illegally. However the order in which events occur etc is still a problem.

If i'm right however, the next game to use this DRM will have the same problems with being cracked, it'll take a long time but eventually all the 'prompts' will be collected.

I'm probably not right

 

[Disjunto]

sooner or later someone will work out how the prompts are calculated and the whole system will be cracked

 

[n111ck]

sooner or later someone will work out how the prompts are calculated and the whole system will be cracked

Ubi can change the prompt logic on a per game basis though.

I bet settlers doesn't get the sane emulator as it's a fairly non linear game...

 

[HangTime]

There are loads of people over here in guernsey that use Pay as you go broadband (300 minutes per month)


http://www.surecw.com/guernsey/page-1356

Capped at £34.99 isn't too bad for an unlimited service. Although this would obviously be annoying for people who are normally low usage users, to be fair, I bet most PC gamers are online for a lot more than 300 minutes per month, I mean seriously, 5 hours per month? That's only 10mins per day and most people will use that up just on web browsing, email, IM etc, even if they aren't online gamers, and then you've still got to download patches, do your research into games, online ordering etc etc.

 

[Tefal]

then you've still got to download patches, do your research into games, online ordering etc etc.

If only there was some toher way to get news, patches and demos!


Somthing like a book, but made monthly it could even come with some sort of data storage device to put demos and patches on.


Oh if only

 

[MystaEB]

What strikes me as unusual is how EA and Ubisoft have failed to cotton on to what is the best anti piracy method of all. It works most of the time and doesn't inconvenience the end user at all.

That method is this: make a good game that people might actually buy.

Surely the funds, time and effort that go into draconian DRM solutions would equate to much higher financial returns if they were instead used to, oh I don't know, perhaps make the game better?

I'm sure Stardock proved a while back with Sins of a Solar Empire that DRM is essentially a waste of money. Some of the greatest games on my shelf also have the leanest and least obtrusive DRM known to man. The problem in my opinion is that no publisher is ever going to believe that a game is selling poorly because it's simply an average game when it's much easier to blame piracy.

That's all just a theory of mine though.

 

[britboy4321]

What strikes me as unusual is how EA and Ubisoft have failed to cotton on to what is the best anti piracy method of all. It works most of the time and doesn't inconvenience the end user at all.

That method is this: make a good game that people might actually buy.

Surely the funds, time and effort that go into draconian DRM solutions would equate to much higher financial returns if they were instead used to, oh I don't know, perhaps make the game better?

Nope. With no protection (and the money spent on copy protection put into the game) more people would copy it. Many more.

Its basically like people that steal blu-ray disks from HMV. It doesn't matter if they were 99p each, the thieves would still steal them. The whole price/drm/game not good enough thing is just for the thieves to try and justify to themselves the morality behind thieving (Ironically lots of thieves justify stealing things like push-bikes because they weren't locked up properly)! When you get to the bottom of it they know the difference between wrong and right, and want to somehow justify an act they are doing that is obviously morally flawed. Virtually all criminals do it about virtually all crimes (well taxes are ridiculously high so why should I pay them when they are handed out to benefit thieves? Well she REALLY wound me up so I lumped her. Well she was obviously dressing like she wanted it, and she looked over the legal age, so I gave it to her. Well if they leave 'good x' in an unlocked trailer overnight what do they expect etc. etc. self-justifying morally bad behaviour so they don't feel so bad about what they are doing. Happens all the time, all crimes.

Notoriously easy to copy games arn't pirated less, EXACTLY the same as poorly protected jewellery stores (that spend the money they SHOULD have spent on security on cheaper prices) have LOTS more stuff nicked. Exactly the same concept. Of course the thieves HATE it when CCTV does go in (and the price of jewellery goes up to cover the margins, and why should they spend THAT much on a bracelet? Ridiculous - right -- I'm justified in nicking it) ....

They're just thieving plain and simple. Don't let any kind of self-justified morality and 'it's ok because ...' cloud what is actually going on ..

 

[MystaEB]

Nope. With no protection (and the money spent on copy protection put into the game) more people would copy it. Many more.

Its basically like people that steal blu-ray disks from HMV. It doesn't matter if they were 99p each, the thieves would still steal them. The whole price/drm/game not good enough thing is just for the thieves to try and justify to themselves the morality behind thieving (Ironically lots of thieves justify stealing things like push-bikes because they weren't locked up properly! When you get to the bottom of it they want to somehow justify an act they are doing that is obviously morally flawed. Virtually all criminals do it about virtually all crimes (well taxes are ridiculously high so why should I pay them? Well she REALLY wound me up so I lumped her .. etc. etc. self-justifying morally bad behaviour!

Notoriously easy to copy games arn't pirated less, EXACTLY the same as poorly protected jewellery stores (that spend the money they SHOULD have spent on security on cheaper prices) have LOTS more stuff nicked. Exactly the same concept.

I'm not completely convinced it's as black and white as that though, nor that it's directly comparable to a shop not having ample security. Although you are right in that essentially thieves will always be thieves, I still feel that making games worth the money would help combat the "losses" publishers blame on piracy. My point is, pirates will pirate regardless of protection, price, etcetera, but making a game worth purchasing will at least pull in sales from legitimate buyers who are on the fence about purchasing said game.

 

[Amnesia]

Nope. With no protection (and the money spent on copy protection put into the game) more people would copy it. Many more.

Its basically like people that steal blu-ray disks from HMV. It doesn't matter if they were 99p each, the thieves would still steal them. The whole price/drm/game not good enough thing is just for the thieves to try and justify to themselves the morality behind thieving (Ironically lots of thieves justify stealing things like push-bikes because they weren't locked up properly)! When you get to the bottom of it they know the difference between wrong and right, and want to somehow justify an act they are doing that is obviously morally flawed. Virtually all criminals do it about virtually all crimes (well taxes are ridiculously high so why should I pay them when they are handed out to benefit thieves? Well she REALLY wound me up so I lumped her. Well she was obviously dressing like she wanted it, and she looked over the legal age, so I gave it to her. Well if they leave 'good x' in an unlocked trailer overnight what do they expect etc. etc. self-justifying morally bad behaviour so they don't feel so bad about what they are doing. Happens all the time, all crimes.

Notoriously easy to copy games arn't pirated less, EXACTLY the same as poorly protected jewellery stores (that spend the money they SHOULD have spent on security on cheaper prices) have LOTS more stuff nicked. Exactly the same concept. Of course the thieves HATE it when CCTV does go in (and the price of jewellery goes up to cover the margins, and why should they spend THAT much on a bracelet? Ridiculous - right -- I'm justified in nicking it) ....

They're just thieving plain and simple. Don't let any kind of self-justified morality and 'it's ok because ...' cloud what is actually going on ..

so these rapist pedo benefit thieves ....do you think they would still steal the bluray disks if they were sold for a penny each ?

not that it's really relevent but then your post about the woman asking for it and the girl looking legal did stray a bit too.

 

[Amnesia]

if people believe thieves will always be thieves and would never pay for the games then what is the point in putting the protection on ? sooner or later the game will be cracked and the thieves who will always be thieves will simply wait for it to be cracked.

how many copies get sold depends on how good the game is ....not on how good the protection is.
So how do those who pay for the game benefit in any way with this nightmare DRM?

if this DRM is so good and beneficial for gamers then why has AC2 been reduced in price just weeks after its release ? why isn't it selling ?
it's not fully cracked so it can't be the pirates fault this time.


btw britboy you forgot to compare the pirates to terrorists in your last post

 

[n111ck]

Didn't Ubi release PoP without DRM and it was pirated just as much if not more so? I'm sure this was one of their stated reasons for the online DRM.

Also is anyone that moans about flaky internet connections playing BFMC2 online? If so how are you doing it? Surely getting disconnected every 5 mins makes it unplayable?