Wikileaks releases apache footage.

Dj_Jestar · 6 Apr 2010 at 17:44

Tefal said:
Because other people, who are actually improtant, tend to impose trade sanctions etc.

while ineffective agaisnt random african nation 5, are consideribly effective agaisnt first world developed country.

Troll/Devil's Advocate fail ;/

rypt · 6 Apr 2010 at 17:44

Tefal said:
while ineffective agaisnt random african nation 5

Only because the sanctions are never imposed by everyone, or are sufficiently stringent or the borders properly policed.

MURDEROUS G · 6 Apr 2010 at 17:50

Dj_Jestar · 6 Apr 2010 at 17:54

That Bush pic got an extra lol from me, as your username seemed (in)appropriate to this topic

Tefal · 6 Apr 2010 at 18:05

Dj_Jestar said:
Troll/Devil's Advocate fail ;/

How so?

America nukes massive civilian populations of a non nuclear/major world power what do you think will happen?

You think russia, china, UK or france are going to enter into a war with a clearly ****ing mental nuclear America?

rypt said:
Only because the sanctions are never imposed by everyone, or are sufficiently stringent or the borders properly policed.

Indeed but agaisnt a big country like america even if it's only 50% enforced it will cripple them.

trent · 6 Apr 2010 at 18:14

Hey guys just seen a awesome helicopter brb just getting a picture.

Raumarik · 6 Apr 2010 at 18:38

Predictably the US news sites aren't exactly shouting about this.

I'm not convinced by the footage that they had any reason to fire, but once they did I thought they were reasonably professional about it. It's hard to put yourself in their position but from what I saw I don't see everyone carrying a gun, I do see an RPG shaped item in the guys hand, but only for a split second, the next time I see him it's clearly not an RPG.

Dj_Jestar · 6 Apr 2010 at 19:23

Tefal said:
How so?

America nukes massive civilian populations of a non nuclear/major world power what do you think will happen?

You think russia, china, UK or france are going to enter into a war with a clearly ****ing mental nuclear America?

Indeed but agaisnt a big country like america even if it's only 50% enforced it will cripple them.

Nobody is about to nuke anyone, regardless of it being a non-super power or not.

The fail was due to you actually falling for the bait of discussing wide-spread nuclear attack anywho...

mejinks · 6 Apr 2010 at 19:29

Dear god. This whole episode reminds me of Jimbo and Ned from SouthPark, shouting "It's coming right for us!" Knowing it to be a lie and using excessive force.

How can you possibly defend the lying, inhumane treatment of civilians and the dead in contravention of the Geneva Convention? Oh well, its only an Iraqi. How long before its you being shot at? No wonder everyone hates the yanks, they are as proved here unprofessional, trigger happy jerks who sit safe behind their "we are bigger than you so we are untouchable" attitude.

It makes me ashamed that our forces are fighting alongside such animals.

Soviet · 6 Apr 2010 at 19:48

trent said:
Hey guys just seen a awesome helicopter brb just getting a picture.

I'm going to hell.

Rameses · 6 Apr 2010 at 19:53

Soviet said:
I'm going to hell.

Me too!

^^Gord^^ · 6 Apr 2010 at 20:04

trent said:
Well seems a RPG has a range of 900m's and have very poor accuracy past 300m's and the helicopter was 1km to 1.5km's away i wouldn't be that alarmed. It would be a very lucky shot if they were able to hit a moving object 50ft big at a range of 1-1.5km away.

We don't have any idea of the range. I wouldn't expect it's anything like 1km away. The photographer to be looks like he is taking photos of the Apache so I'd expect it wasn't a huge distance.

TJM · 6 Apr 2010 at 20:06

rypt said:
Thing you have to remember is that the insurgents have had no qualms about pretending to do be doing one thing (say picking up wounded) but at the same time readying another attack.
They have no qualms about using human shields (including women and children), no qualms about using religious buildings.[/B]

How does this justify killing an unarmed man helping a wounded, unarmed man to safety? There was absolutely nothing to suggest the van driver had hostile intent. What attack could he have been preparing by dragging a dying man off the road?

rypt · 6 Apr 2010 at 20:19

TJM said:
How does this justify killing an unarmed man helping a wounded, unarmed man to safety? There was absolutely nothing to suggest the van driver had hostile intent. What attack could he have been preparing by dragging a dying man off the road?

Perhaps this time it was just someone helping someone, but next time or last time it could have been someone acting like they are doing so while someone else in the van is readying another attack.
There is no way to know, and the blame for this does not lie with the US army but lies with the insurgents using tactics that are prohibited in the field of war.

trent · 6 Apr 2010 at 20:35

^^Gord^^ said:
We don't have any idea of the range. I wouldn't expect it's anything like 1km away. The photographer to be looks like he is taking photos of the Apache so I'd expect it wasn't a huge distance.

You can work out the distance by the time delay it takes for the bullets to hit the target from when they were shot.

Vulcan · 6 Apr 2010 at 20:43

Surfer said:
This is in reference to the US soldiers attacking and killing the unarmed men who try to carry the wounded guy into their van. I assume the wounded guy was killed as well.

Cheers for your thoughts on that dont think we will agree on that one.

Perhaps I worded it wrong, but I meant I saw nothing wrong with the civilians collecting the bodies. Not that I saw nothing wrong in the Apache engaging the van. My point is that they weren't medics and shouldn't be labelled as such, they were civilians.

Cybermyk said:
I thought the end of operations was declared in 2003. It's kind of hard rebuilding your country if you cant pick up anything looking like tools or help wounded people in the street.

Politically it ended in 2003.

^^Gord^^ said:
We don't have any idea of the range. I wouldn't expect it's anything like 1km away. The photographer to be looks like he is taking photos of the Apache so I'd expect it wasn't a huge distance.

See my previous post...

Longbow said:
The 30mm projectiles speed upon leaving the barrel is ~800m/s, and there's a 2 - 2.5 second delay between the sound and the impact, so I'm going to say 1.5+ Km.

Emlyn_Dewar · 6 Apr 2010 at 21:03

trent said:
Or you can spend a little more time to assess the situation to get a full confirmation it is a RPG.

What's to say that by the time you had spent reassessing everything, you wouldn't be in a firey nightmare, plummeting towards the ground?
None of us have been in that situation, we don't know what we'd do.

I'm weak, if I'd been trained to shoot people, I'd probably fire first to save my own ass. Ask questions later.

JBuk · 6 Apr 2010 at 21:08

trent said:
Or you can spend a little more time to assess the situation to get a full confirmation it is a RPG.

Yes, because when you're in a hostile area and you suspect someone has an rpg and they want to kill you with it the best thing to do is take your time , maybe have a cup of coffee, a cream bun, polish your nails, powder your nose,etc then land and ask politely if they have weapons

yup, that's what I'd do

trent · 6 Apr 2010 at 21:39

As said before judging by the time delay of the bullets we can estimate that they are 1.5km away this is well out of range of a RPG.

Accuracy of a RPG. Carried out by US military.

Range Percent
50 m 100%
100 m 96 %
200 m 51 %
300 m 22 %
400 m 9 %
500 m 4 %

^^Gord^^ · 6 Apr 2010 at 21:44

Longbow said:
Originally Posted by Longbow View Post
The 30mm projectiles speed upon leaving the barrel is ~800m/s, and there's a 2 - 2.5 second delay between the sound and the impact, so I'm going to say 1.5+ Km.

Only trouble with this is the bullet will lose velocity as soon as it leaves the barrel, it will not continue to do 800m/s until it hits something.