Ideal graphic design and gaming screen, IPS?

[Darren]

Hi Guys,

My current monitors are 24" 1920x1200 PVA panels (DGM) which are excellent for both graphic design and gaming, however I only have two and want to run eye infinity. Unfortunately theses monitors are no longer available so I need to get three new ones.

I ordered three Samsung F2380's yesterday and they arrived this morning, I got them because they were PVA units which is what I currently have and love. However as soon as I switched one on I knew there was going to be an issue straight away, as soon as I moved any open browsers colours would blur and drag, so I stuck a game on (Grid - because fast paced) and sure enough it looked awful compared to my existing screens, distance stuff was jerky and blurred (horrible!!). I tried Empire total war and that seemed ok but then it would because it is not exactly a fast paced game. Having little knowledge of screens I can only assume the 8ms response time which I took to be negligible as seems such a tiny amount of time, does in fact matter a lot!

Anyway needless to say I am now sending these back, shame really as they have thin bezels and excellent stands as well as being thinner than my current screens.

So I need advise now as I have no idea what to get, I can tell you graphic design (colours) are very important to me as is wide viewing angles, however it also needs to be able to play games. My current screens have a 5ms refresh rate and that has been flawless as far as my eyes are aware on every game I have: Crysis, Counter Strike, Far Cry 2, Left For Dead 2, Grid, Empire Total War etc - As well as graphic design.

The Dell U2410 has caught my eye but have noticed it is an IPS panel, something I have never viewed or owned before - would this be the ticket? Anyone here have those babies’s? Any other suggestions are more than welcome.

Thank you..

ps. I do not run eye infinity now and did not run it on the Samsungs, I am expecting a Sapphire 5870 Eyefinity 6 and standard Sapphire 5870 later today - I got the 6 version because there are no active display port adapters anywhere, my poor wallet...oucchhh! lol

I should have pointed out I will need a 1920x1200 resolution - The Samsungs were shockingly smaller than the DGM's even though it is only 120 pixels, and for eye infinity I think it will matter even more.

 

[PCM2]

I would certainly consider the Dell UltraSharp U2410. I've used this screen myself as well as other Dell IPS panels and have found it to be very good as far as colours are concerned. I haven't gamed extensively on an IPS panel, but from what I have heard the new Dell IPS panels are responsive enough so that ghosting etc. is not a big issue.

One thing worth mentioning is that some people have experienced tinting issues with the U2410 (I'm sure you've read about this). It doesn't seem to affect all the screens and many people have returned their monitors and have received replacements they are happy with. This might be a bit of a hassle if you want three of them, though.

You should also consider whether a broad colour gamut is important in your work, or whether you would prefer accurate colours within the sRGB colour space so that the media you produce will display correctly on other devices. The U2410 does have an sRGB emulation mode, but even the XL2370 (TN panel from Samsung) conforms more tightly to the sRGB colour space - but obviously this says nothing for the colour-accuracy of the output.

Have you looked at the upcoming HP ZR24W? Could be worth a look.

 

[Darren]

Thank you PCM2,

Yes I had read somewhere about the tinting issues, I thought that was on an older version of the screen, your right though that does putt me off a little bit.

I hadn’t seen that ZR24W screen until now, looks like the response rate is the same as my current ones, and will more than likely have even more accurate on screen colours. As far as colours are concerned I only need to worry about on screen colours, as 40% of my job involves web design. It mentions on/off response rate (12ms) which I have never seen quoted before, not entirely sure if that is good or bad? One good thing looking at those images is the stand, it only sticks out a little bit at the back, enabling the screen to go closer to the wall; the best bit is the price!!

Looks like it’s a case of try it and see, I suppose I am in no real rush as long as these two continue to work! Having read the DGM post, I am one of the very few lucky ones : (; it's just a matter of time before they fail.

If anyone else has experience with gaming on an IPS panel, please let me know how it performs in faster paced games, thank you.

ps. Saying that I am hoping there brochure is correct stating 5ms, in-store it quotes 7ms.....

 

[PCM2]

Thank you PCM2,

Yes I had read somewhere about the tinting issues, I thought that was on an older version of the screen, your right though that does putt me off a little bit.

I hadn’t seen that ZR24W screen until now, looks like the response rate is the same as my current ones, and will more than likely have even more accurate on screen colours. As far as colours are concerned I only need to worry about on screen colours, as 40% of my job involves web design. It mentions on/off response rate (12ms) which I have never seen quoted before, not entirely sure if that is good or bad? One good thing looking at those images is the stand, it only sticks out a little bit at the back, enabling the screen to go closer to the wall; the best bit is the price!!

Looks like it’s a case of try it and see, I suppose I am in no real rush as long as these two continue to work! Having read the DGM post, I am one of the very few lucky ones : (; it's just a matter of time before they fail.

If anyone else has experience with gaming on an IPS panel, please let me know how it performs in faster paced games, thank you.

ps. Saying that I am hoping there brochure is correct stating 5ms, in-store it quotes 7ms.....

That's strange about the in-store quotes. As far as I am aware the G2G response time of the ZR24w is 5ms, but the 22-inch version (ZR22w) is 8ms. I wouldn't worry too much about the 'on-off' response time. This is the figure that they used to quote on LCD screens and represents the time taken for a pixel to transition from "on" (white) to "off" (black) and then back again. It was deemed more useful and "realistic" to consider the time it takes to transition from one shade of a colour to another (grey to grey), although the exact points at which manufacturers measure this varies.

I hope your panels hold out for now then!

P.S. Don't mean to give you too much more to think about, but I stumbled across this interesting forum discussion. http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1502708&page=3. A person was comparing his recent experiences of the ZR24w with the Samsung PX2370 (very similar panel to the XL2370, my favourite TN panel I've used so far). He seemed to be in a dilemma as he loved the accurate and broad colour range of the ZR24w, but preferred the PX2370 for gaming. A little further down the page somebody discusses how the PX2370 compares to the ZR24w on various colour and contrast attributes and it actually seems (no surprise to me) to be one of the more impressive TN panels. I think it would be easy enough to recommend the ZR24w over any TN panel for the viewing angles and colour accuracy though - two things that are particularly important to you. Also the resolution of the PX2370 is not sufficient for your needs...... I think I just have a soft spot for it.

 

[Darren]

Haha it certainly did give me something to think about, have just read another review after clicking a link and another link from the link you posted of the Samsungs I have sitting here in there boxes. It stated that there were different speed settings for response time (which was really my only seriously major gripe), so I got one out and sure enough there was. I set it to fastest and all though not as fast as my DGM's, it is fast enough that I can live with them! Then i did some minor calibrating with the use of the inbuilt functions in Windows 7...colours far exceed the DGM! White text is white - I thought it was before but blimy!

One things these do have is outrageous blacks!! I was booting in to Windows 7 with both the DGM and the Samsung on, and the Samsung was pitch black (with 0 bleed), whereas the DGM was...well glowing grey! Funny how you don't notice something until you have a side by side comparison.

Looks like after all that I am going to stick with these as they are a good compromise seeing as I only game about 15% of the time, and only 2% of that time is spent with fast paced games.

Probloem solved, I will live with the 1920x1080 resolution, like most things I expect I will soon get used to it. Thanks for all your input : )

Hopefully by the time I need new screens there will be borderless ones, with 1ms response times, wide viewing angles and 100% rbg colour gamet

 

[EsaT]

I ordered three Samsung F2380's yesterday and they arrived this morning, I got them because they were PVA

Those new F-serie Samsungs are c(ra)PVAs and don't have proper RTC meaning their real response time is in 15ms class.
S-PVA and IPS panels use RTC so their response times are close to advertised.

I should have pointed out I will need a 1920x1200 resolution - The Samsungs were shockingly smaller than the DGM's even though it is only 120 pixels, and for eye infinity I think it will matter even more.

Whole FullHD hype is big stinking slimy pile of BS when it comes to PC.

One things these do have is outrageous blacks!! I was booting in to Windows 7 with both the DGM and the Samsung on, and the Samsung was pitch black (with 0 bleed), whereas the DGM was...well glowing grey!

cPVA has even highest contrast of LCD matrices...
But wasn't that DGM one of those cheap brands?
In that case it probably lacks actual backlight brightness adjustment and instead uses contrast raping panel blocking for preventing eyes getting burned by excessive brightness meaning crappy grey black and dirty white.

 

[PCM2]

Haha it certainly did give me something to think about, have just read another review after clicking a link and another link from the link you posted of the Samsungs I have sitting here in there boxes. It stated that there were different speed settings for response time (which was really my only seriously major gripe), so I got one out and sure enough there was. I set it to fastest and all though not as fast as my DGM's, it is fast enough that I can live with them! Then i did some minor calibrating with the use of the inbuilt functions in Windows 7...colours far exceed the DGM! White text is white - I thought it was before but blimy!

One things these do have is outrageous blacks!! I was booting in to Windows 7 with both the DGM and the Samsung on, and the Samsung was pitch black (with 0 bleed), whereas the DGM was...well glowing grey! Funny how you don't notice something until you have a side by side comparison.

Looks like after all that I am going to stick with these as they are a good compromise seeing as I only game about 15% of the time, and only 2% of that time is spent with fast paced games.

Probloem solved, I will live with the 1920x1080 resolution, like most things I expect I will soon get used to it. Thanks for all your input : )

Hopefully by the time I need new screens there will be borderless ones, with 1ms response times, wide viewing angles and 100% rbg colour gamet

Haha brilliant! Sounds like that saved you a lot of time and effort. Sounds like a nice OLED screen might be your next investment. Although 1ms reponse is way too high .

 

[Darren]

I sent them back as they still had issues with the response and refresh rate particularly on fast paced stuff, so I got myself 3 Del U2410 - I must admit I kept questioning the expense and worth of the screens and Eyefinity up until I got them out of there gigantic boxes and plugged them in. Having let these babies bed in for a couple of days it was worth every single penny!! Monitors are sublime in everyway and are fantastic for graphic work (colours are incredible!), gaming and video.

I am over the moon and can't stop smilling - everything on the desktoip comes to life in a way I could not have imagined, and gaming is on a whole new level!

woohooooooooooooooooooooo

 

[PCM2]

Funny thing is I'm actually writing a (hopefully fairly thorough) review of the F2380 right now. I've got it calibrated up nicely and the colours are actually quite impressive. It is somewhat lacking the vibrancy and punch that I've seen in other monitors but certain colours (blues in particular) are handled very well - from deep blues to electric blues. Greens on the other hand seem a bit weaker, in particular light hues. Contrast is really quite special (blacks are certainly black and whites are nice and bright, especially on black backgrounds). The image has a nice natural look to it, but the same certainly doesn't hold true when it's in motion and games and movies do lack a certain punch. I also don't like its handling of dark greys too much (i.e. shadowed areas in games and movies lack some detail).

I think it was reading this thread the first time that made me want to test the F2380 properly. I've always found it an interesting monitor!

 

[Darren]

Yes the Samsung had oustanding blacks and white text was crystal clear, and colours in general were very good.

I just could not get my head around the horrible blurring and shifting of the colours when scrolling the page, but then they were never designed for anything other than 2d work. For graphics work and normal office duties I think anyone would be hard pushed to find a better screen for the money.

I liked the thin bezels on them, the stands were good (similar to these Dell's), they glide up and down like Cheryl Cole on a pole .

But as alrounders they fail, but they do what they say on the box incredibly well so can't knock them for not being game friendly.

I love the Dells : ) - Off to imerse myself in a game for the rest of the evening, been working since 6am : (.

Have a grrovy evening ; )

 

[Darren]

The greys on the Samsung were identical to my old PVA screens, seems to be an attribute of the PVA units themselves..I looked at them side by side and both did the same thing; off axis detail, straight on loss of detail in shadows.

 

[PCM2]

I think you've summarised my entire review (so far) perfectly. I might just stop there. I really want to get the U2410 in for a proper scrutinization, but Dell aren't being too forthcoming. Hope you enjoy your gaming session - it is a really excellent panel.

 

[v0n]

Funny thing is I'm actually writing a (hopefully fairly thorough) review of the F2380 right now. I've got it calibrated up nicely and the colours are actually quite impressive. It is somewhat lacking the vibrancy and punch that I've seen in other monitors but certain colours (blues in particular) are handled very well - from deep blues to electric blues. Greens on the other hand seem a bit weaker, in particular light hues. Contrast is really quite special (blacks are certainly black and whites are nice and bright, especially on black backgrounds). The image has a nice natural look to it, but the same certainly doesn't hold true when it's in motion and games and movies do lack a certain punch. I also don't like its handling of dark greys too much (i.e. shadowed areas in games and movies lack some detail).

I think it was reading this thread the first time that made me want to test the F2380 properly. I've always found it an interesting monitor!

Holu thread revival batman, but... We made a mistake buying few of these for temp video editing setup and the F2380ies are just insanely bad. The monitors suffer from crazy, crazy, awful looking lag, especially with broadcast safe colorimetries. It's not just fast motion but you do frame by frame from our macs and you can see the monitor literally trailing - dithered, fugly blobs and shadows before it redraws the screen. It gets slightly milder when you switch response time from Fastest to Normal in menu, but it's still absolutely appalling - I have never ever seen anything like it, not even with really old LCD monitors and god knows, I had some dogs on my desk throughout years.

 

[PCM2]

Yeah I agree with you about the response time- we pointed out such flaws in our final review, but unfortunately we didn't attempt any video editing with the monitor. Please feel free to add these comments to the end of the review as I'm sure these will be useful for people considering video editing on the F2380.