Poll: Which party will get your vote in the General Election?

Which party will get your vote in the General Election?

  • Conservative

    Votes: 704 38.5%
  • Labour

    Votes: 221 12.1%
  • Liberal Democrat

    Votes: 297 16.2%
  • British National Party

    Votes: 144 7.9%
  • Green Party

    Votes: 36 2.0%
  • UK Independence Party

    Votes: 46 2.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 48 2.6%
  • Don't care I have no intension of voting.

    Votes: 334 18.3%

  • Total voters
    1,830
Status
Not open for further replies.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8618974.stm

Brown: I make a mistake allowing banks to persuade me to de-regulate them. Takes a big man to admit when he's made a mistake, the important thing is that we put those mistakes right and don't make them again in future.

Persuade him!??

PERSUADE HIM!?!??

Jesus Christ, what a lying, cheating, deceitful, revolting wretch of a man (Gordon, that is). Scorza; I hope you don't believe him.

His lies will just NEVER stop.

The facts show otherwise. Britain's economic downturn began when its house price and household debt bubbles inevitably burst, beginning with the run on Northern Rock in September 2007. These bubbles had swollen to higher levels, relative to average price and income levels respectively, than in the U.S. and other major economies.

In relation to their long-term average, British house prices soared by 88.5% between 1997 and 2007, according to the OECD. In the U.S. the rise was 64.5%. Britain's household debt rose to 176.9% of disposable income in 2007 from 104.8% in 1997. During the same period, U.S. household debt rose only to 105.8% of disposable income from 64.3% in 1997. The increases in Germany and France were considerably lower.

Gordon Brown tolerated and even encouraged the formation of these bubbles for several reasons. The traditional sources of Britain's economic strength, the mining and manufacturing industries, shrank during his term as chancellor. Total mining sector output, including oil and natural gas, dropped by 31% between 2000 and 2007. Total manufacturing production was stagnant during this period.

The gross value, in inflation-adjusted prices, of output from all production industries combined fell by 3% between 2000 and 2007. Their employment level dropped by nearly 1.1 million over the same period. These trends were not an inevitable result of shifts in comparative advantages that are said to occur in advanced economies. Real manufacturing output rose at an average annual rate of 2.2% in the U.S., 1.2% in Germany and 1.1% in France between 2000 and 2006, according to the World Bank.

Eager to achieve the illusion of steady progress in the overall economy, Mr. Brown needed the rapid expansion of financial services, and the real estate and business services industries. Their output soared by 48% and 33% respectively from 2000 to 2007, compared with 19% for the overall economy. Their combined employment level reached nearly 6.7 million in 2007, an increase of more than one million.

So the boom in the financial and real estate sectors served Mr. Brown's political interests well. And he was by no means a passive bystander to their growth. He urged them along in several policy speeches. Introducing on April 1, 2005, a policy document entitled "Homebuy: Expanding the Opportunity to Own," he insisted that "this Britain of ambition and aspiration is a Britain where more and more people must and will have the chance to own their own homes."

Ignoring the inability of many house buyers to pay their mortgages, he touted this message to City bankers in successive annual speeches at the Mansion House in London, promising them "light-touch regulation." Already in 1997 he transferred the responsibility for bank regulation from the Bank of England to the inexperienced Financial Services Authority. He also curbed the central bank's ability to keep asset inflation in check by removing housing costs from the price index.

Mr. Brown also repeatedly praised the City's "innovative skills," bragging in 2006 that it was responsible for 40% of the world's over-the-counter derivatives trade -- which includes the now infamous repackaged subprime mortgages. He gave financial institutions a false sense of security by telling them on June 16, 2004, that "I am determined to ensure that we can lock in greater stability not just for a year, or for an economic cycle, but in this generation."

With this assurance from the chancellor, how could anyone expect bankers to forego juicy profits and bonuses by avoiding innovative but unduly risky practices? Because of the large size and global reach of Britain's financial sector, and the many newfangled financial instruments it created and marketed, Mr. Brown cannot honestly deny all responsibility for Britain's recession.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124500992205413331.html
 
Last edited:
The electorate stupid/fickle... maybe more people with warm to Brown after his apology*. Similar to how people are attracted to LibDem (Green?) as they're "not the other two". Absurd.


* LOL.
 
Except of course he is still trying to deflect blame on to the bankers about it. All the politicians are at it. It is also a shame he didn't admit to his mistakes when it was all going wrong and instead shifted as much blame as he could to the bankers. When is he going to admit that he left the country in a much worse position to deal with the banking crisis because he ran up debts during a boom period and has no real intention of changing his prolifigate spending habits?

That's because the bankers have by far the largest share of the blame for the banking crisis (the clue is in the name). The current government aren't blameless, but at least Brown is starting to acknowledge where his failings were. Unlike the bankers whose attitude seems to be that nothing was substantially wrong, and we can keep going as we were, gambling with our own and other people's money and paying ourselves obscene bonuses - you'll just have to trust us that the same system won't produce exactly the same catastrophic results somewhere down the line. Oh and if you do anything we don't like, we'll bugger off to Switzerland and not pay you any tax.
 
That's because the bankers have by far the largest share of the blame for the banking crisis (the clue is in the name). The current government aren't blameless, but at least Brown is starting to acknowledge where his failings were. Unlike the bankers whose attitude seems to be that nothing was substantially wrong, and we can keep going as we were, gambling with our own and other people's money and paying ourselves obscene bonuses - you'll just have to trust us that the same system won't produce exactly the same catastrophic results somewhere down the line. Oh and if you do anything we don't like, we'll bugger off to Switzerland and not pay you any tax.

Did you read any of my post!?!?

You make Brown sound like this innocent bystander to these greedy bankers. He ACTIVELY encouraged them to keep doing what they were doing.

Don't be so foolish!
 
That's because the bankers have by far the largest share of the blame for the banking crisis (the clue is in the name). The current government aren't blameless, but at least Brown is starting to acknowledge where his failings were. Unlike the bankers whose attitude seems to be that nothing was substantially wrong, and we can keep going as we were, gambling with our own and other people's money and paying ourselves obscene bonuses - you'll just have to trust us that the same system won't produce exactly the same catastrophic results somewhere down the line. Oh and if you do anything we don't like, we'll bugger off to Switzerland and not pay you any tax.

Yes, of course, every single banker is to blame...

I cannot believe you are naive enough to fall for this obvious faux apology from Brown. If Brown were starting to acknowledge where his failings were why hasn't he mentioned his biggest failing which was increasing the debt the country was in during boom times so that when the bust came we were too broke to do much about it?
 
That's because the bankers have by far the largest share of the blame for the banking crisis (the clue is in the name). The current government aren't blameless, but at least Brown is starting to acknowledge where his failings were. Unlike the bankers whose attitude seems to be that nothing was substantially wrong, and we can keep going as we were, gambling with our own and other people's money and paying ourselves obscene bonuses - you'll just have to trust us that the same system won't produce exactly the same catastrophic results somewhere down the line. Oh and if you do anything we don't like, we'll bugger off to Switzerland and not pay you any tax.

The electorate stupid... maybe more people with warm to Brown after his fake apology.
Case and point.
 
1035
A member of the public asked us why our cameras and the police were outside the health centre being visited by Gordon Brown, the BBC's Jane Hill reports. When we explained that the PM was inside, she said: "Oh I thought there must have been a murder. That's far more likely round here."

LOL!!!!
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8618974.stm

Brown: I make a mistake allowing banks to persuade me to de-regulate them. Takes a big man to admit when he's made a mistake, the important thing is that we put those mistakes right and don't make them again in future.

Except the interview is a load of cobblers designed to appeal to Labour voters and those who live their lives by irrational jealousy by telling them what they wanted to hear.

He didn't de-regulate the banks, just changed the regulations and inadvertantly damaged their effectiveness through incompetence and idiocy in the change process.

ineffective regulation is far worse than de-regulation.
 
Persuade him!??

PERSUADE HIM!?!??

Jesus Christ, what a lying, cheating, deceitful, revolting wretch of a man (Gordon, that is). Scorza; I hope you don't believe him.

His lies will just NEVER stop.

I actually hand on heart don't think he's deliberately lying, i think he has delusions of grandure and truly thinks none of this is his fault and he is the only one that can fix it! (which is worse in my opinion as i think he's a little mentally unhinged)
 
I actually hand on heart don't think he's deliberately lying, i think he truly thinks none of this is his fault and he is the only one that can fix it! (which is worse in my opinion)
xnycsl.jpg
 
10 reasons why I am not voting for Labour:

1. Labour waste so much of taxpayers' money; funding so many stupid "schemes" that end up being abandoned, resulting in billions lost. One example: The NHS IT system (over £500m) *poof*, money gone, project abandoned. "Oh well", says Mr Brown.

Some schemes work, some schemes don't. I saw an interview with the owners of google and they were saying less than 10% of the 'Friday projects' ever make it to market. Less than 10%. One of the most successful companies on the planet. But you'd rather go for let's just not try in case it doesn't work :( Way to go for the future there fella! Let's try NOTHING in case it fails. In the 60s presumably you'd have been the most vehoment opponent of the space-program as they 'probably wouldn't' get to the moon. As for the super-collider .. cancel cancel cancel as it may not work. What a depressing way to proceed.

2. Labour's benefits system is a complete and utter joke. Did you know that in many boroughs, if you are earning less than £18k/year you can claim £1000/week for rent in housing benefits? Yes you read correctly. £1000/week.
Labour even have the cheek to say you can keep an extra £20/week if they give you too much for rent! Housing benefits alone cost the taxpayer nearly £20bn a year. You also qualify for this housing benefit if you are on the dole, and you won't have to pay any council tax. Have a couple of kids and you get child benefits on top. Why bother working when you can sit on your arse and live a £55k/year lifestyle courtesy of the taxpayer? It is absolutely disgusting (and I don't know why more people aren't outraged by this, though I suspect it's because not many people actually know about housing benefits, a.k.a. Local Housing Allowance). I agree with having some sort of help if you are genuinely struggling, but this is simply wrong.

Seriously, do you read the daily mail? You see your problem here is that you fail to see the problem. The issue is twofold. Firstly, the kids these scum have ARE COMPLETELY INNOCENT. They do not deserve to starve or go into child care (more expensive than benefits). Now If I have 9 kids I am afraid if I get less than £800 a week I will be unable to keep them in any condition and they will suffer. Your plan will have innocent children suffering dreadfully. Kids that have done PRECISELY, EXACTLY ZERO WRONG. But of course the mail doesn't base it's stories on the innocent kids, it's always on 'Mr and Mrs scum'. You have to rise above that - to see the ACTUAL IMPLICATIONS of taking money away from a large family that, for whatever reason (deprived area for example), is simply unable to find work.

So you're next super-super system is to have completely innocent kids suffering, as some kind of wierd vindictive lesson to their scum parents? Sounds like such an awesome idea :(

Or perhaps you're one of these 'they should be sterilised' brigade of daily mail readers. OK, so what are we going to do? hire big burly men to forcibly hold them down and force against their will operations on members of the public? Nice. Perhaps the big burly men could wear some kind of uniforms with 'Surgical Specialist', or 'SS' written on their hats?

If you just take away benefits people will THIEVE from you and me. Because they'll start starving. They won't gently watch their children starve, THEY'LL THIEVE. So would I. So would you.

If only the benefits system was as simple as 'We know a way of making scum suffer without any innocents suffering'. But this has NEVER been the case. It's just that the conservatives are prepared for 'collateral damage' because, frankly, they don't really care - as long as people that have money get slightly MORE money off the tax breaks ..


3. Labour goes out of their way to increase legislation and bureaucracy in the public sector to "create" more jobs. I have friends who work in this sector, and most of their coworkers are paid high salaries despite being complete morons with virtually no skills, and spend most of the day chatting to each other doing hardly any work. No work gets done, and the equally clueless (and highly paid) managers then think they need to hire more manpower. So then they recruit more mindless idiots, sapping away more taxpayer money.

Firstly I think you are generally confusing the local council with central government. Secondly central government has never created jobs that do not have a defined purpose. So let's see your plan: 1) The workers arn't working hard enough. OK, well the way private sector keeps workers working is by getting more managers, introducing work-flow tools, reporting to find out where the problem is etc. 2) There are far too many managers. Er .. complete logical problem. Sack the managers, the workers will run riot. Seems again like a bit of a daily mail rant without considering the implications of your 'sack the managers, can the beaurocracy and magically expect the workers to pick up their game' strategy. It'd be lovely though, if we weren't in the real world.

4. Gordon brown has been running the economy since the beginning of Labour in 1997, and is now the prime minister. The UK economy is a mess, with a ridiculously large deficit that has been ever increasing since 1997. The deficit affects the country's credit rating, which in turn affects the strength of the pound, which in turn affects the cost of importing oil, which in turn affects the price of petrol (and that's just one of many things). If you say "the national debt doesn't affect me", you are sadly mistaken. Do you know how much the UK has to import? (And don't get me started on why so many of our major manufacturing companies have moved overseas)

All countries economys are in a mess. Us more than some because we rely on the financial sector, mainly because we are pretty rubbish at doing much else (for example we were always pretty rubbish at steel). The strength of the pound comment made me smile when mentioned in the same paragraph as 'imports' as obviously the cheaper the pound is, the more we export! It's not 'The more expensive the pound is the better', and it never has been. Read carefully - so many of our manufacturing companies have moved overseas because the pound has been too expensive, making British products too expensive to foreigners to buy. The pound gets devalued, and somehow you now state thats also a problem. Jees. Just give us a clue, what value do YOU want the pound? Remember, the more expensive it is, the more expensive our exports are. What do you want? Or is it just 'er .. whatever Labour does is magically wrong' :(

5. Labour ministers have openly admitted not knowing what their real net immigration rate is (perhaps an example of point #3 above?). A huge number of schools in Britain are already full of kids whose English is their 2nd language, demonstrating that immigration is a big problem especially for education. To handle the situation, they want to introduce a "picking out of the hat" system for secondary school places. What a joke.

Well I have spent considerable time in central London and none of their schools are full of immigrants. Your insinuation that 'English is their second language = they are bad at English' is also a bit naive. This whole point seems a bit daily mail and has hyperbole and invented problems spilling out of all sides of it so not really worth addressing.

6. Who should be primarily blamed for the UK's economy anyway? Surely not the man who has been in charge since the beginning. Oh no, it's all the bankers' fault, the same bankers who've been actually keeping the economy alive and money flowing, (don't forget whilst also paying their "substantial" Income Tax, National Insurance, Employers National Insurance, Capital Gains tax, etc). No it couldn't possibly be anyone else's fault. Man, I bet Mr Brown cried with joy when he woke up that morning and realised he could blame his entire career's failings on the banks. Those greedy greedy bankers, how dare they earn us all this tax money, and have the cheek to award themselves bonuses, our MPs would never do anything remotely like that! *cough cough*


Of course MPs do never award themselves bonuses, and their salary is decided by a third party (and are MASSIVELY, MASSIVELY UNDERPAID compared to what they could get privately - my own personal bugbear). Also either the prime minister OR the chancellor is in charge of the economy. Your statement would suggest Brown was in charge when chancellor, and also magically when prime minister. Doesn't hold water. Which are you going to go with (hint - don't choose 'chancellor' as then I'll say 'Well the moment Brown left number #11 the economy went from its' longest even boom to bust. Pity the legend had to move on'.) (hint - don't say 'prime minister' as then I'll say 'He's only been prime minister for a few years, so all the other woes should be blamed on Blair who is long gone, and a person we're not voting for or against').



7. Inheritance tax. You have paid taxes all your life. You pay VAT on virtually everything you buy, you pay income tax on your wages, national insurance (+ another 11% employers national insurance if you are contracting), on petrol, for electricity, gas, water, road tax, car insurance, council tax, phone bills, stamp duty, booking flights, extra tax on alcohol... you name it. If you managed to make it to old age with money left, you pay for your own elderly care. If you are lucky enough to still have any assets/money left afterwards, Labour still want 40% of it once you die, minus the price of a small terraced house or studio flat. Your money has already been taxed. If you work hard all your life and want to let your 3 kids share your nice house you worked all those years for, tough luck, Mr Brown is taking 40% of it. Auction time!

This is actually to get rid of the class system. The daily mail would write the story like this: 'Bill, 32, has never worked a day in his life, he 'can't be bothered'. He has been in prison 8 times for offences on children. He says 'people that work are scum'. He spits on people in the street.
For no reason apart from who his dad was (which was of course pure fluke): He got given £50m by his dad tax free which he now spends on cocaine and hookers (apparently his dad did something dodgy during the war involving jewish gold to get the money). The tories think that system is fair and Bill is the kind of guy that deserves £50m. Labour would take that £50m, built a hospital to fix people up that have done NOTHING WRONG in their entire lives but weren't born into riches, and told 'Bill' to get his fat backside out there and get a job. Me personally, the Labour way forward sounds just kind of the way society should be.

People shouldn't be given so much wealth they never have to work just because their daddy did well. It's not fair. If it had never happened, you'd think the idea of 'never-worked in their lives scum' getting given £50m for no reason at all to be truly atrocious. The trouble is you're used to the idea, so are 'self-justifying' it. Quite an irony when you're against people claiming benefits, that you are FOR the same types of people claiming 'daddys fortune' :( . If only you coudl step back and see what you're actually saying .. how illogical it is ..



8. Remember Jacqui Smith? Sure you do. Guess who specially appointed her as Home secretary? Yep, Mr Brown himself. What a great judge of character!

hmm. Is she also 'a big snake'?

9. On a personal level, I think Gordon Brown is nothing but a snake. In my opinion he doesn't give a toss about the country's well being, he only cares about his own ambitions. He is a clueless leader and has no idea what he's doing. He even lost us £2bn selling more than half of the UK's gold reserves for goodness sake. What sort of chancellor/prime minister loses £2bn dealing with one of the most stable commodities on earth?

If he cared not about the countries well being he'd be working in the private sector earning £5m+ by now. And before you say it, of COURSE they would employ him and pay him that. No-one could stay in positions of responsibility like he has held without knowing what they are doing. No-one. The opposition would have ripped him apart, where as at the moment we have about equal polls. He precided over the BIGGEST, LONGEST BOOM IN HISTORY. If you weren't working through it take me word for it, it was AWESOME. Loads of money everywhere. Loads of jobs. The ability to rake it in. Fantastic, best time of my life for the wodja ..

10. After all this fiscal waste, throwing billions away on absolute tripe, blowing further billions on benefits encouraging people to sponge off the state, expense scandals, paying public sector bosses ridiculous salaries, paying millions for advisory boards and not actually making use of them (drugs committee anyone?). Labour then has the audacity to say: "well Britain, you're in trouble, can't imagine why, but I guess we just need more money. More taxes please." And do you know what gets me the most? What really gets me? The fact that the party lacks any balls to take a step back and say "you know what, we acknowledge we made some mistakes and bad decisions. We shall try to amend our ways." No. They just mosey on with not a single trace of humility, and deny anything bad ever happened. It cannot go on like this.

Er .. with your more taxes comment, it's actually the conservatives who are going to take money out of the economy altogether at this time of economic trouble (yup, away from the business YOU work for. great plan eh?). Unlike every single other government IN THE WORLD, the conservatives think the way to stimulate the economy is to TAKE MONEY AWAY FROM IT! And I'm not joking I'm deadly serious. Just after a recession, months after, they think 'let's reduce the money in the economy'. Just about everyone thinks this is mental, apart from thick joe Public. It's just depressing :(


On your post in general, it sounds like you have read A LOT of the daily mail. It sounds like you think Gordon Brown has never done any good. Now, consider this, would someone forming a rational argument ever suggest EVERYTHING Brown has done has been a disaster? Nope. Therefore what you've done is let emotion into the argument. You are also going to vote as 'revenge' for the past which is silly, you should be voting for the future. It sounds like WHATEVER the tories do when they get in, no matter how bad it makes things, you're just going to think 'That is the legacy left by evil old Brown'. Which is blinkered thinking. Open your eyes. Shut the daily mail. Do more reading around the subject. Basically learn the reality of all parties having benefits and disadvantages. Don't think of Brown as a 'snake' as it clouds reality with emotion, try and stick with the facts. If you think of him as a snake you'll spin everything he has done into a failure, which is easy to do, but loses you your capability to thinik through the whole gig rationally.

And stop reading the blimin' mail! It's poison I tells ya!

 
Last edited:
Yes, of course, every single banker is to blame...

I cannot believe you are naive enough to fall for this obvious faux apology from Brown. If Brown were starting to acknowledge where his failings were why hasn't he mentioned his biggest failing which was increasing the debt the country was in during boom times so that when the bust came we were too broke to do much about it?

Increasing the national debt didn't cause the banking crisis, if it wasn't for the banking crisis we wouldn't have a deficit in double figures and a national debt of 70% GDP (+ a whole load of other liabilities which if realised really would be game over for this country).

As far as the specific issue of the global banking crisis goes, Brown is 100% right to acknowledge his failure to implement the correct regulation on the banking industry. His only saving grace is that no-one else with a chance of being chancellor would have done any different, people believed in the myth that the free market is the best way of determining appropriate risk at the time, and so I find it difficult to believe that George Osbourne for example would have done any different to what Brown did in this regard.
 
Learn more. Society should look after it's weak. To screw them over so the strong can be stronger is lame, and selfish.

Believe it or not, you could need help from society at some point.

Have you ever heard of the term 'Survival of the fittest'? It should apply to society as it applies to nature.

Why the **** should I have to pay more tax just to keep some scum bag lazy arse in benefits when they can't even be bothered to work? I have succeeded in life, I completely resent others benefiting from my hard work.

The benefits system needs to change, and drastically.
 
Increasing the national debt didn't cause the banking crisis, if it wasn't for the banking crisis we wouldn't have a deficit in double figures and a national debt of 70% GDP (+ a whole load of other liabilities which if realised really would be game over for this country).

I think you'll find the recent limited skirmish and subsequent illegal and unnecessary occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan has added it's share to the National Debt as well.
 
Increasing the national debt didn't cause the banking crisis,

I know, but it left is in a rubbish position to deal with it. Time for a rubbish analogy. If I am living beyond my means and racking up debt while earning a good amount and suddenly I get made redundant it is no suprise that redundancy is going to be really painful. If instead of living beyond my means I had been living well but putting money into savings then when being made redundant I would have a bigger buffer and be a lot more able to cope with it. Brown pretty much did the former, believing his own press about eliminating boom and bust. So when the inevitable bust did come we were much less able to deal with it. I do not blame Brown for the banking crisis but for the state of the countries finances when it hit so we are less able to deal with it.

if it wasn't for the banking crisis we wouldn't have a deficit in double figures and a national debt of 70% GDP (+ a whole load of other liabilities which if realised really would be game over for this country).

And if we hadn't had so many years of mismangement of the finances we would still be in a bad place, but it would not be anywhere near as terrible.


As far as the specific issue of the global banking crisis goes, Brown is 100% right to acknowledge his failure to implement the correct regulation on the banking industry.

But it wasn't a failure to implement the correct regulation, it was also a failure in messing about with the regulations and creating a bad regulator. He stopped the Bank of England being the banks regulator and gave it to the FSA which was already struggling as the regulator for investments and insurance. He made the regulatory system much worse.

His only saving grace is that no-one else with a chance of being chancellor would have done any different, people believed in the myth that the free market is the best way of determining appropriate risk at the time, and so I find it difficult to believe that George Osbourne for example would have done any different to what Brown did in this regard.

Except of course it wasn't a free market, banks were forced to use two of three credit rating agencies and the bank regulator that Brown set up wasn't capable of doing the job and already overworked.

Are you honestly falling for this apology? Can you really not see it for what it is? It is just another bit of election spin like so many other announcments and the like from so many other politicians of all stripes.
 
Increasing the national debt didn't cause the banking crisis, if it wasn't for the banking crisis we wouldn't have a deficit in double figures and a national debt of 70% GDP (+ a whole load of other liabilities which if realised really would be game over for this country).

As far as the specific issue of the global banking crisis goes, Brown is 100% right to acknowledge his failure to implement the correct regulation on the banking industry. His only saving grace is that no-one else with a chance of being chancellor would have done any different, people believed in the myth that the free market is the best way of determining appropriate risk at the time, and so I find it difficult to believe that George Osbourne for example would have done any different to what Brown did in this regard.

Once again you deliberately and wilfully misrepresent (because it can't be accidental because it's been explained enough times) that we moved to a free market system. Banking was highly regulated under Brown, the regulations were just not effective. You can't have a free market failure when the free market wasn't involved.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom