Getting Bored..

[phill1978]

Anyone else getting bored now of all the Ati 5xxx series talk. almost every thread is:

" recommend me a new gpu"

"ok.. 5850" - thread done.

or

" should i go 480GTX"

"only if you can afford it and can be arsed to cool it properly" - thread done



when will we hear some news about the next range of ATI cards? the current crop have been out for over 6 months now and im feeling the need to get excited about some stupidly fast new gfx card
for me the 5xxx are a real step in the right direction, especially seen as im into eyefinity but there not quite rapid enough to deal with metro on full or crysis on full let alone in multiscreen, sure you can multi gpu but that has its own pitfalls (although less these days) and there good value but i kind of expected cards with those stats to pull bigger numbers than they do if you get what i mean?

i keep hearing people talk about them being avaliable 3rd-4th quarter but no news from ati.. are they protecting the sales of current cards ? its not exactly far away now

 

[Mean Mr Mustard]

They're probably looking at the competition and thinking there's no rush to get something new out there at the moment.....

Having said that, I have a 5850 but I'd certainly be tempted if ATI brought out some new goodies.

 

[JediFragger]

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/04/21/atis-southern-islands-tapes-out

If true then we should see a shakeup soon

 

[phill1978]

that would be cool jedifragger (apart from nvidia death as we seriously need competition)

 

[AgedIdiot]

Got to say that I find that article a little scary

No way do I think it good if nvidia (or Ati) go to the wall.

Here's hoping that nvidia sorts itself out quickstyle

 

[phill1978]

Here's hoping that nvidia sorts itself out quickstyle

agree..

one caveat .. Nvidia need to stop messing gamers around with lack of AA on games and with physx domination, also they need to sort there pricing out.


the whole reason ATi won the psycological battle with consumers this time and hence their money was that nvidia have been real corporate rat bags and you can literally sense the green slim pour out.

if they smarten up and sack some of the idiots get modern with pricing and policy then i will buy there products... but when PFM/VFM margin is so close with ATi now there is no reason to go to the green side

 

[jorzeh]

From what i Read about ATI's road map looks like nvidia are going to get stomped on..

Which is fine i'm sure intel would join the GPU race and lets face it if they put 100% into a GPU market they would dominate it they have the best brains in the business on Chip deisgn.

 

[Kurisu Makise]

lol im not sure what graphics card i want anymore

 

[DavieJG]

i would expect 5xxx to be around for 12months yet.

4xxx was 06/08, 5xxx was 09/09....thats around 15months but nvidia actually had some decent cards then...

 

[AMG]

yes...they should know by now, unless they have been out the loop for a while but no harm in suing the search is there

only reason to have Nv is for development or as a heater.

Might be different for mainstream cards when fermi finally comes about in that form

 

[el Kuarlos]

Lol. As per op's expectations, people should buy a 5850 for a while to come...

This talk of nvidia going to the wall due to ati boggles me though, ati did ok when their back was well and truly against the wall...amd did the same...look at them now. And they did not have anything close to the pedigree and capital that nvidia had during their darkest hours, nor was there evidence that even when beaten you can turn it around. Nor had it been shown clearly that when you cant make the fastest, make the most efficient/best vaule.

These things spin in roundabouts...and I really, really wouldnt be surprised if intel dont do something to counter amd's fusion given their own graphical shortcomings and team up with nvidia...

nvintel peoples.

I called it.

 

[el Kuarlos]

And copyright on the name.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Lol. As per op's expectations, people should buy a 5850 for a while to come...

This talk of nvidia going to the wall due to ati boggles me though, ati did ok when their back was well and truly against the wall...amd did the same...look at them now. And they did not have anything close to the pedigree and capital that nvidia had during their darkest hours, nor was there evidence that even when beaten you can turn it around. Nor had it been shown clearly that when you cant make the fastest, make the most efficient/best vaule.

These things spin in roundabouts...and I really, really wouldnt be surprised if intel dont do something to counter amd's fusion given their own graphical shortcomings and team up with nvidia...

nvintel peoples.

I called it.

Nvidia can't compete on cheapest, AMD are moving to global foundries, Nvidia are incredibly unlikely to, they'll be stuck on second rate TSMC production making gpu's 70-80% larger that are maybe even slower by the next gen.

They've shown a complete arrogance and lack of forward thinking to stay on the "netburst philisophy" which is, bigger and faster. There was no bigger or faster, bigger and faster, past a certain point in manufacturing is literally not possible. C2D is smaller than AMD's comparitive chips, yet better, AMD make something bigger, at a smaller profit and sell it for less, Nvidia are quite literally already making a loss per gpu right now, its likely going to be worse next gen.

ATi never had their backs to the wall, they had their smallest segment behind to Nvidia for 6 months, while they outsold Nvidia's midend range because the x1950pro sold by the trillions(slight exageration).

The difference is while ATi had a few issues there was NO issue at all with their low and mid end, it was the smallest and least profitable segment, and they still made a profit on their high end chips when they finally made them.

Nvidia is the opposite, they are having problems in the mid end and the high and, and worst of all, within 2 years their low end, by FAR their biggest market, is going to be gone. Every CPU sold will have a "low end" gpu in thats fastest, cheaper, better, more feature rich than anything Nvidia can make, not to mention how many Nvidia low end chips will Dell buy, when every computer they build will ALREADY have a low end chip in it thats better, answer, none at all.

Nvidia situation now, the last year and what they are facing in the next 24 months isn't close to ATi's situation a few years back.

Now, we're at the point where there is almost no question this is what will happen, in 2 years Nvidia will have 50-60% lower sales than they have today when their low end is gone. Their high end is 6-8 months later than AMD's, on a worse process, thats double the size and can't be sold at any profit, their mid end is likely twice as big, very very low profit, 6-8 months later than AMD's, not competitive and not many people will buy it.

AMD is likely to have their refresh for high end and mid end done Sept/Oct like last year. Nvidia probably won't have the 480gtx shipping in high quantities even by then, might be the same situation for the midend, both could be 30% behind cheaper parts the competition is making, before they can get it on the market properly.

When it becomes a Global Foundries vs TSMC fight, the game will literally be over because AMD cores will likely shrink by 20-30% compared to the same process on TSMC, likely have higher capable clock speed cores, and much higher yields, which all increases availability and prices, which will only increase the massive gap already there.

 

[el Kuarlos]

Nvidia can't compete on cheapest, AMD are moving to global foundries, Nvidia are incredibly unlikely to, they'll be stuck on second rate TSMC production making gpu's 70-80% larger that are maybe even slower by the next gen.

Lets see global foundaries make some low nm GPU dies before saying this. And when they do, you not think tsmc will be right up there?

Nvidia situation now, the last year and what they are facing in the next 24 months isn't close to ATi's situation a few years back.

Funny how despite intel's chips owning amds, for several years, even now no contest ...amd are coming back.

Now, we're at the point where there is almost no question this is what will happen, in 2 years Nvidia will have 50-60% lower sales than they have today when their low end is gone.

bs, if you and I can see this...trust me nvidia employees whose careers and familes depend on nvidias success have done, at least 9 moths before we did. You thing they arent doing anything?

Their high end is 6-8 months later than AMD's, on a worse process, thats double the size and can't be sold at any profit, their mid end is likely twice as big, very very low profit, 6-8 months later than AMD's, not competitive and not many people will buy it.

Just imagine if the largest gpu maker in the planet pulls something out of the bag, or tsmc make a breakthrough. So many variables.


Seriously dude, we are talking '12 rounds' here. Nvidia has won on points each and every round for god knows how long. You telling me the fact they are losing on points significantly this round is the end?

Do not believe the hype. This is coming from someone who has a 5850...it is plain immature to discount and write off a corporation of that size. A 9 month step ahead gpu will not bring down nvidia. Yes there are other factors not going nvidia's way but tides turn.

AMD lost money in ways what will be remembered for years to come but...they just looked at the competition, and used intel's trailblazing to move forward, and good judgement to capitalize on their mistakes.

 

[kylew]

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/04/21/atis-southern-islands-tapes-out

If true then we should see a shakeup soon

What happened to your mod status?

 

[lawz]

Is it weird I just prefer Nvidia boards to ATI's? I've had both over the years and currently sport a GTX260. But when that finally gives up the ghost (currently making an annoying fan noise at times) I'll probably get an ATI card, think im going to regret it, and won't. But as soon as a new Nvidia card comes a long that like, works, I'll get that.

I'm not a fan boy, I won't get my E ***** out and wave it around, I just like Nvidia more than I do ATI.

Oh, and I always found ATI drivers to be rubbish. And ATI cards can't do real time lighting updates in UT3 and UDK.

....

 

[Alex74]

...

So...you prefer the Nvidia interface?

The problem i have with people saying "ATi drivers are always rubbish" is the lack of substance. Let's have some examples, demonstrate a consistent deficit in function and reliability compared with NVidia drivers. Then when you say that you'll be taken seriously.

If you just say 'yea i like NVidia more, ATi drivers are rubbish', then of course you'll be simply branded a "fanboy"

 

[kylew]

Is it weird I just prefer Nvidia boards to ATI's? I've had both over the years and currently sport a GTX260. But when that finally gives up the ghost (currently making an annoying fan noise at times) I'll probably get an ATI card, think im going to regret it, and won't. But as soon as a new Nvidia card comes a long that like, works, I'll get that.

I'm not a fan boy, I won't get my E ***** out and wave it around, I just like Nvidia more than I do ATI.

Oh, and I always found ATI drivers to be rubbish. And ATI cards can't do real time lighting updates in UT3 and UDK.

....

As above, care to back up your claims? It seems a lot of people are stuck in this way of thinking and they don't actually know just why they think it, but that they simply do.

What is your opinion when some one talks about an nVidia card they are having problems with?

What you have said is why people would call you a fanboy, preferences don't make you a fanboy, having preferences that you can't really explain is what makes people call you one.

Everyone around here knows I really don't like nVidia, most know why, I don't like how they act.

Simply though, if nVidia had a card out with the best price to performance ratio, I'd be all over it, because everything else aside, that's the most important factor to me, and nVidia are consistently very very poor when it comes to price to performance ratios.

Driver wise, when people say they prefer the "drivers" what they probably mean is the control panel, and to be honest, I'd probably say nVidia's is better than ATi's control panel, better lain out and all that, but such trivial matters are not what would make my mind up on a purchase.

The control panel is something you'd surely spend 0.001% of your computer time using compared to the time you're playing games.

99% of people wouldn't be able to tell if a PC was running an ATi or nVidia card in a PC they were playing games on (obvious examples like PhysX and so on need not apply), which to me is why price/performance is the most important factor.

Sadly for nVidia, I really can't see them competing with ATi on price/performance any time soon if their recent actions are a good example of how they're running things.

The GTX260 got close to the 4870 on price/performance, but it was something nVidia evidently couldn't sustain as they had to stop manufacturing GT200 chips because they were too costly to make and obviously weren't selling well enough.

 

[Jokester]

GPU on die with the CPU is a complete game changer for Nvidia. Intel can do it, AMD can do it, Nvidia can't and they know it, there's been rumours that Nvidia have been trying to get a x86 license so that they can get into this market. Give it a couple of years there will be no reason to have a seperate GPU in the vast majority of PCs which loses Nvidia a huge part of their business.

It leaves Nvidia extremely vulnerable as they will only be able to compete in the mid and high end discrete market, where at the moment they little viable product.

 

[Rroff]

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/04/21/atis-southern-islands-tapes-out

If true then we should see a shakeup soon

SI is an interesting one, because NI/evergreen hybrid (in performance/high end configuration) is not what they were intended to be originally, I think someones got some wires crossed somewhere - but I don't know enough about the AMD/ATI side or have good enough contacts there to try and find out whats what.

I do think we will see a NI/Evergreen hybrid out sooner rather than later tho, if AMD slip more than 6 weeks on the 5 series refresh or something comes out with killer tessellation usage forcing their hand.

Hes also very doom and gloom about the 28nm refresh of Fermi which IMO is somewhat misplaced, Fermi doesn't need to increase SPs, etc. the same as traditionally to unlock its performance potential - just that little extra space can allow them to get the shaders upto speed, beef up TMUs and the polymorph engine, etc.